# A Brief Tribute to Law & Order **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 13, 2020, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355 "2020-01-13T15:45:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2020, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/121 "2020-02-01T16:29:43Z")
I remember Jaime Ross saying that suspects are entitled to an attorney, not a good attorney. (The lawyer in this case was Jerry Stiller). ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2020, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/122 "2020-02-02T16:07:30Z")
I remember at the time there was much gnashing of teeth when Claire Kincaid left and much hatred for Abbie Carmichael, but I Angie Harmon a great ADA. She wasn’t about to put up with nonsense and there were a couple of cases where Jack and Adam threw up their hands and said fine, you try it. There was a very early Jack/Claire episode where they’re talking in Jack’s office. Jack opens a door, stands behind it, and proceeds to change into his jeans all the while talking with Claire. I absolutely cannot see that flying today. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2020, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/123 "2020-02-02T16:09:03Z")
Stupid 502 error made duplicate post ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2020, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/124 "2020-02-03T17:55:18Z")
Dick Wolf must be salivating over the “ripped from the headlines” Law & Order episodes he can make from the real like tale of [Fotis Dulos](https://nypost.com/2020/01/28/fotis-dulos-charged-in-missing-wife-jennifers-murder-dead-by-suicide/) ---
**Author:** ![bbonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecb155/32.png) [@bbonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bbonden)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2020, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/125 "2020-02-03T18:50:34Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > I remember at the time there was much gnashing of teeth when Claire Kincaid left and much hatred for Abbie Carmichael, but I Angie Harmon a great ADA. She wasn’t about to put up with nonsense and there were a couple of cases where Jack and Adam threw up their hands and said fine, you try it. Abbie Carmichael was a great character, maybe the best in the show’s run (better than my fancrush, Ben Stone, and better than St. Briscoe). Electric in her scenes. Problem is that she was written as too powerfully - she overshadowed the rest of the ensemble, and McCoy in particular. She got her comeuppance once or twice, but needed it more often for compelling drama. > [@ivylass](#): > > There was a very early Jack/Claire episode where they’re talking in Jack’s office. Jack opens a door, stands behind it, and proceeds to change into his jeans all the while talking with Claire. I absolutely cannot see that flying today. I think it would, but there probably would need to be an episode in which McCoy had to deal more directly with his various explicit or implied relationships with his ADAs. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2020, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/126 "2020-02-03T19:28:09Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > I remember at the time there was much gnashing of teeth when Claire Kincaid left and much hatred for Abbie Carmichael, but I Angie Harmon a great ADA. She wasn’t about to put up with nonsense and there were a couple of cases where Jack and Adam threw up their hands and said fine, you try it. I think Season 10 had the best character combo. Briscoe, Green, Mcoy, Carmichael, and Schiff. Shame they were only all together for that season. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2020, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/127 "2020-02-03T20:43:39Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I think that was Ben Stone. The suspect had some connections for Russian organized crime and Stone made a deal with the guy’s Russian-born attorney that New York _County_ would not prosecute. Brooklyn is King’s County. Yep. Saw this episode recently. Possibly because this thread was in my head when Stone made the offer, it was _blindingly_ obvious what he was setting up, and the guy seemed even more _blindingly_ stupid for going along with it. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/128 "2020-02-04T00:22:53Z")
> [@medstar](#): > > “The Law and Jerry McGraw”? Harry McGraw. 16 episodes, and then he went back to MSW for a few more. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/129 "2020-02-04T04:44:56Z")
I started re-re-watching the series earlier this fall. One episode a night, but really more like two because they’re so addictive. I’m halfway through season 7. I’m giving special mention here to Steven Hill and S. Epatha Merkerson. They were both fucking brilliant. They had such good lines. Hill does a lot of mouth acting. I just watched that episode that’s been mentioned a few times in this thread, where McCoy goes to jail for contempt. Hill does some great acting in that one. I love when the female assistants challenge him, and I especially love when he has a scene with a defendant or another lawyer. Steven Hill as Adam Schiff is just a fantastic character. And S. Epatha Merkerson, she has all the sass and all the power and she has some of the best damn lines. Love her! I’ve really enjoyed all the characters so far (and yes, I have already watched the series twice through)…I’m sad when anyone leaves and quickly forget them because of their fantastic replacements. What a damn good show. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/130 "2020-02-04T13:17:21Z")
I will politely disagree about Steven Hill’s acting chops. In many episodes he reads his lines like the take they used is the first time he’s seen them. Weird pauses that don’t match the words, wrong inflection. He doesn’t seem to be looking at the people in the scene with him. He’s reading his lines in a vacuum. He wasn’t much better on M:I, when he bothered to show up. And then there are episodes like where his wife died. That was brilliant. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/131 "2020-02-04T14:40:22Z")
I totally get where you’re coming from but I find that to be part of the charm of the character. To me it’s interesting to see the juxtaposition of him versus the dynamic DAs. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/132 "2020-02-07T06:18:45Z")
I’ve been taking in some clips on YouTube recently. In fact, I just got around to one of my favorites, the climax of “The Troubles,” where the smug IRA terrorist thinks he’s doing OK until Ben Stone produces a rebuttal witness that completely tanks his nice-guy act. The witness does kind of get gift-wrapped to him in a rather convenient way, but I’m willing to let it slide for the sake of television. “You hardly forget the face of the man who slaughtered your ENTIRE family!” is such a stunner of a line. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/133 "2020-02-07T21:10:00Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > And then there are episodes like where his wife died. That was brilliant. Just a little whimper as his wife flat-lines. Heart-breaking. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/134 "2020-02-09T02:20:55Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > If I recall correctly, Orbach was a [song and dance man](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEW1F9kZ-UE) who got his breaks in _The Fantasticks_ back in the early 1960s, so I go with item 1 on Charlie’s list… though Orbach may have decided that “playing himself” was just easier as he got older. Seems to me that he was capable of appearing to be playing himself- and not “putting on the well-crafted face”. His work always felt natural. I had a very intense and cherished week in Marrakech with Jerry and his lovely wife many years ago on a shoot. He was a pretty decent actor, a hell of a song-and-dance man. And a very kind and caring human being. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/135 "2020-02-10T16:39:09Z")
Binging some episodes last night, I’ve discovered my one annoyance with the show: The arraignment scenes. They all follow the same basic pattern. 1. Defendant acts indignant 2. Judge gets irritated 3. Junior ADA explains the crime and requests remand 4. Defense attorney says the charges are bogus 5. Judge says to save it for trial Except for a few episodes where you might get a bad judge or the defendant goes on the run, it doesn’t do anything to move the plot forward. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/136 "2020-02-10T22:30:14Z")
Well, there’s the one where the mother of the slain daughter brings a gun to court and shoots the suspect, but I think usually it’s a way for the actor playing the arraignment judge to have a bit of snarky screen time. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2020, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/137 "2020-02-11T00:58:31Z")
The arraignment scenes are probably an atavism from when the show was supposed to be shown in two part in syndication. It sets the tone for the crime for the audience that didn’t see the “Law” part (or is it “Order” first?) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355.md?page=6)