"A British family on vacation accidentally drove into the U.S..."

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
61

Yes, this story is quite fishy. I’m inclined to believe ICE followed proper procedure in this case.

But, Homeland Security agents are pretty scary.

Years ago I answered the door to loud banging. I was greeted by 4 muscular agents (even the woman agent looked like she could bench press 400lbs) with big guns drawn, and POLICE HOMELAND SECURITY emblazoned on their stab and ballistic vests.

Good golly, what’s this all about?!? I answered the door thinking I’d have to brush off some guy wanting to pressure wash my driveway, or maybe place an order for some Thin Mint girl scout cookies. Looking down the business ends of four 9mm Heckler & Koch MP5 submachine guns was not on my list of “who’s that knocking at my door” possibilities; at least not until I’ve had my first cup of coffee.

…could this be about that Cuban cigar a friend gave me last month? It was a knock-off Cohiba, probably rolled in Tampa—promise!

Tibby: H-Hello?
Agent: [holds a large photo to my face] Do you know this woman?
Tibby: …uh, yes, that’s our nanny (our live-in au pair from Poland).
Agent: Where did just drive off to?
Tibby: She took my daughters to pre-school.
Agent: When will she be back?
Tibby: In a few minutes, I suppose. What did she…[they cut me off mid-sentence]
Agent: Don’t try to contact her! We’ll be back. [they scatter back into the woodwork]

Gee, I can’t wait…

A few minutes later I answer the door again to loud knocking. Now the 4 agents are holding our nanny. She’s silently crying.

Agent: Can we do this in your house?
Tibby: Do what in my house? Well…ok, but what did she… [they cut me off again and push nanny into the foyer and into the kitchen]
Nanny: I’m so sorry, Mr. Tibby…

Just as they had nanny bent over our kitchen table, reading her rights and cuffing her, my brother-in-law, Art, walked in the back door to the kitchen. He was holding a bag.

Art: You got the coffee brewing, Tibby?..oops…wha?.. [the agents point their big guns at Art. Art drops the bag and raises his hands]
Agent (s): Who’s this guy?
Tibby: That’s Art, my brother-in-law. He and my sister are visiting from Pennsylvania.
Agent: What’s in the bag?
Art: B-b-bagels…f-f-from Lox Stock & Bagels…[agent #2 inspects the bag, no doubt pissed there are no donuts in there]
Agent: You can go. [Art tip-toes back out the door, and no doubt swallowed a handful of his heart medicine]

I knew the nanny was pilfering vodka from our liquor cabinet, but I didn’t think that was the reason for her arrest. She was a good nanny…with a bit of a drinking problem. She drank after hours, so it didn’t affect my kids. I felt sorry for her. She had a hard life.

Turns out she was peripherally involved in a major scandal involving the United States Navy. Later on she flipped on bigger fish in the scam and got a reduced sentence. My goofy (now ex) wife hired her back when she got out of prison. Our vodka continued to evaporate. She later started a business selling cupcakes. They were good cupcakes.

So, in this case, DHS was justified in the arrest, but they’re pretty hard core and overly intimidating. But, I must say they were pussycats compared to my later encounters with the FBI.

62

Did you watch the video?

They slowly turned and drove across a grassy median/ditch to get to the road on the other side. Not accidental and not normal.

63

Fence? We don’ need no stinkin’ fence!

Back in the day, when my mom was a youngster, she won an international competition in Calais, Maine, for rollerskating backwards with a goblet of water balanced on her forehead. The prize was a live bunny (I don’t know if it was supposed to be a pet or dinner, but that’s neither hare no there). To make a long story short, she was busted while trying to get back across the Canadian border. I assume that it must have been a descendant of the Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog to require such border enforcement (and come to think of it, that does sound suspiciously like Ganong, which was a major employer in her town), so yes, I’ll admit that the security of some of our border crossings is not exactly up to Special Handling Unit level, or Max level, or any level at all.

In fact even today, eight decades later, quite a few of our border crossings still do not even have fence. Some have a phone with a sign politely directing you to give the CBSA a call, while some others simply have a sign politely directing you to come across and report to the nearest office when they are open. I know of a couple where there is not even a requirement to visit or call an office, on the assumption that you will eventually go back where you came from.

But here’s the thing: Canada and our southern colonies share a border of a bit under 9,000 km, of which about 3,800 km is internal waters coastline. Our salt water coastline that exposes us to the rest of the world is nearly a quarter of a million km. Fencing that in, or fencing you out, would take a lot of fencing.

Trump has been building a climbing wall for rock climbers to practice on. It is costing Americans about 12.5 million CDN per km, so if Canada were to build a fence it would conservatively (because only a Conservative would do such a thing) cost us about $4.0625E+12 CDN, which equates to about $110,000 CDN per Canadian. That’s a lot of money for something that is useless and that interferes with wildlife wanderings, including bunnies.

And then we get into supervision of the fence. Good luck with that.

Now that all being said, we do have some border crossings that have some fence. I can’t say if it is to encourage folks entering Canada to take their turn in line rather than run through the woods, or if it is for real security, or if it is just to keep up with the Joneses and their fences on the American side of the border crossings. There is such a fence at the mouth of the Pigeon River that is at the eastern end of the bi-national transportation corridor at the top of Minnesota where the Webster-Ashburton Treaty of 1842 give right of portage on both sides of the border to citizens/subjects of Canada and the USA. But it is not a long fence, and it has a gate. If you want to use the gate to go through the border security fence (for example, to go fishing), all you have to do is ask the CBSA agent in the crossing office to lend you the Key to Canada.

Do you have any idea how many gates along a quarter million kilometers of fencing it would take to ensure access to good fishing? Do you have any idea how many keys would have to be cut ab initio, and how many would need to be replaced each year? Sorry (to quote standard Canadian usage) sorry, it just ain’t happening.

64

Yeh, one of them let one of my Princess Nieces and her girlfriends into the USA for a night on the town. Later that evening he turned up at the Gunflint Tavern and tried to pick her up. She and her friends left, but he followed them. As they drove away he ran after them, which was when she made her mistake, for she stopped at a stop sign just as he caught them and climbed in the back seat of the car.

The sprint must have disagreed with his stomach, for he then puked all over the interior of the car, including over my Princess Niece and her friends. They hauled him out of her car, and then had a infinitely long one-and-a-half hour drive home.

Months later, she, her mom and I crossed the border when the same fellow happened to be on duty. As he looked at my Princess Niece, he froze like a deer in the headlights. Then her mother asked, “Is he the one?” He started sputtering and motioned for us to proceed. I gave him a nod, said “It’s nice to have met the legend!” and began to pull away as my Princess Niece and her mom shrieked with laughter at him.

So yes, some Homeland Security agents are pretty scary.

65

Rather than nitpick this minor point, do you have any substantive response to the other things that I and other posters have pointed out?

The question is not how likely these people are to have gone to this place and crossed the border. We know they did go to this place and cross the border. The question is how the fact of their earlier attempted entry and refusal weighs on the relative probabilities of whether this known action was accidental or deliberate. If you really think it’s more likely that in these circumstances they just happened to go for a pleasant drive right next to the border carrying a load of US currency and accidentally crossed, may I interest you in purchasing a bridge?

66

Look, I’m not saying you have to apologize for that, but it would be the decent thing to do.

67

Probably some local fisherman out for a pleasure cruise. At night. Through eel-infested waters.

68

We have different ideas about the fence. I was thinking of something maybe a yard high, just a strand or two of wire, pretty like you find in some fields. In other words, purely symbolic. And pretty little signs at all the roads that go across the border. As in Europe, where you can drive across a border and not know it if you missed the sign (OK, there is often a first sign saying you are approaching the border, but not always).

As for waterways, you just have to use some common sense.

I’m not saying that the US-Canadian border should be patrolled or kept under video surveillance, merely that it should be marked in places where it can, and perhaps should, be marked. If that has not been done already. But the ICE seem to be really hyper about such incursions.

69

The place they crossed is less than a mile from the proper border crossing.

Do we know when it was that they were turned away from entering the US? If I were to speculate, I’d say they went to the border crossing, got turned away, and then went back down the road the other way, which would explain exactly why they were where they were. Obviously, if it were a different day, then that wouldn’t explain it, but if they were on their way back from the border checkpoint, then they would have been driving down that very road.

Also, I’ve checked the links, and I’ve not seen where they were carrying US currency. They had “dollars” which is also what Canada calls their money. Not really doubting, just looking for a cite to clear that up for sure.

70

While it’s not certain that it wasn’t deliberate I’d say the percentage is pretty high. I would expect someone carrying buckets of money has access to a smart phone and would be navigating using GPS mapping.

71

At this point it is academic, but I am curious if our canadian friends can share any information about whether it is true that Canadian immigration refused to let these British nationals back into Canada. After all, they had let them in (at least) once.

Any information on this?

72

Some years back we drove from Canada into the US at a proper crossing… with no customs stop on the US side. Coming back required checking with Canada customs. The adjacent towns were Stewart BC and Hyder AK. Has the situation changed since then?

73

Very little, I’m afraid. The best I can find is from Global News (a Canadian national TV network and reputable news source) and dated October 16 (link here):

Bolding added by me, and I assume that “U.S. consulate” is a typo; it seems to me that it should read, “U.K. consulate.” At any rate, it doesn’t appear that we’ll find out why they were admitted to Canada once, then denied subsequently. Privacy is a serious matter for Canadian government agencies.

74

Not changed. Both ends of the only road to anywhere only goes to Canada, so the USCBP does not bother about people driving there from Canada. Folks flying or boating out from Hyder to other places in the USA would eventually have to go through USCBP when they land/dock.
Hyder–Stewart Border Crossing - Wikipedia

The St. Regis peninsula on Akwesasne in Canada is the obverse, for the only two roads that connect the peninsula to the mainland are between Canada and the USA, so Canada does not bother about people driving into Canada there because the only place they can drive to is back out of Canada. People who drive or walk in from the USA and then boat to another place in Canada are required to report to CBSA. It is also Mohawk territory, which could make things a lot more complicated, and yes, smuggling by boat from there to the Canadian mainland exists.

75

And that GPS mapping would put them exactly where they were. If the story is true about a moose or something in the middle of the road, I fail to see how GPS would assist in this.

They were allowed into Canada in the first place, so it does seem odd that they would not be re-admitted. If the reason that they were not re-admitted into Canada is only because of the illegal border crossing, that seems to end up in a circular argument. People are presuming something nefarious about them because of Canada’s actions, but if Canada’s actions were specifically in response to statements by border patrol, then none of those presumptions carries any weight.

The questions that I have still not seen addressed or answered:

  1. Is there any video of the animal that was allegedly blocking the road?

  2. Was the money that they were carrying Canadian Dollars, US Dollars, or some combination of the two?

  3. Were they denied the opportunity to contact their embassy, and if so, why?

  4. Were they really lied to as to the destination of the flight that they were put on, and if so, why?

76

This is supposed to be the surveillance video - I don’t see any animal actually blocking the road, although I suppose the driver could have been startled by a smaller animal. But if that’s the case, I don’t know why they wouldn’t have tried to drive back over the ditch to the correct road.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

77

Not odd at all, if the event raised suspicions and triggered a deeper background check and uncovered facts that made them inadmissible, which I’m pretty sure is just what happened.

78

Is there any reason the U.S. agents would not fully inform the Canadians of everything they know about them - which would include the new information of their attempted illegal border crossing? That in itself might make them now inadmissible to Canada.

79

The video doesn’t really show very far down the road. If there is a moose down the road, it wouldn’t show up in that video.

But what if the event itself is what made them inadmissible? I would think that illegally entering another country would be the sort of thing that would make you inadmissible.

80

It’s disappointing that they drove across a ditch, rather than through a gate. They came so close to creating a scandal that we could have called Gategate. That would have merited honorary admission to a country of their choice, imo.