# A bullet can stay lodged in someone's body like forever and no problemo? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 16, 2018, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bullet-can-stay-lodged-in-someones-body-like-forever-and-no-problemo/808957 "2018-02-16T21:10:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bullet-can-stay-lodged-in-someones-body-like-forever-and-no-problemo/808957/41 "2018-02-20T22:32:52Z")
[quote=“Cartooniverse, post:35, topic:808957”] LOLOL. Well. As a retired E.M.T. I can deal in facts and not hyperbole. I know nothing of cauterizing wounds that way. Apparently it’s actually a thing:eek: > [@Cartooniverse](#): > > I can state as a fact that New York state the EMT training includes emergency field treatment for a sucking chest wound that includes use of a needle, and I can inform that I know how to do an emergency tracheotomy in the street using a hard piece of tubing or ballpoint pen. Sure, but A) You’re a trained EMT and B) I assume your patients aren’t up kicking ass minutes later. > [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > The rear of the bullet is briefly exposed to the searing heat of the propellant, but do the sides of the bullet make firm enough contact with the gun barrel to be reliably stripped of microbes? > > And does the atmosphere (moving past at several hundred m/s) really strip the front of the bullet clean as well? I would assume that the entire bullet would heat up from both the propellant and the friction of moving through the atmosphere at several hundred m/s). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bullet-can-stay-lodged-in-someones-body-like-forever-and-no-problemo/808957/42 "2018-02-20T23:28:20Z")
But would it heat up enough to sterilize? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bullet-can-stay-lodged-in-someones-body-like-forever-and-no-problemo/808957/43 "2018-02-21T00:00:56Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > To really make you mad, go read “[Destiny of the Republic](https://www.amazon.com/Destiny-Republic-Madness-Medicine-President/dp/0767929713/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1519146325&sr=1-1&keywords=destiny+of+the+republic)”. I want to invent a time machine just to go back and beat those “doctors” with a club. European doctors knew about germs and the need for cleanliness while operating, but the American doctors knew better! They weren’t going to let any quiche-eating eurotrash folk tell THEM how to practice medicine! They knew washing hands and tools made things worse. A doctor who was clean and not covered with blood and guts obviously wasn’t much of a doctor. Hate to bring him up twice in the same thread, but I’m pretty sure it was Theodore Roosevelt that forced the issue of germs, bacteria and cleanliness on the army during the building of the Panama Canal. From there is finally spread to the American Medical Community. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bullet-can-stay-lodged-in-someones-body-like-forever-and-no-problemo/808957/44 "2018-02-21T04:41:07Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Hate to bring him up twice in the same thread, but I’m pretty sure it was Theodore Roosevelt that forced the issue of germs, bacteria and cleanliness on the army during the building of the Panama Canal. From there is finally spread to the American Medical Community. Makes me wonder: could his caring about germs in an era when others didn’t have been part of what made him seem an indestructible badass? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bullet-can-stay-lodged-in-someones-body-like-forever-and-no-problemo/808957/45 "2018-02-21T05:19:02Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Hate to bring him up twice in the same thread, but I’m pretty sure it was Theodore Roosevelt that forced the issue of germs, bacteria and cleanliness on the army during the building of the Panama Canal. From there is finally spread to the American Medical Community. I’ve never heard that it was Roosevelt who had anything to do with that. The issue with the building of the Panama Canal was not germs or bacteria per se, but diseases that were spread by mosquitoes like malaria and yellow fever. The US, under the direction of William Gorgas, “cleaned up” Panama City and the Canal Zone, but it was to get rid of mosquito breeding areas, not to get rid of germs directly. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bullet-can-stay-lodged-in-someones-body-like-forever-and-no-problemo/808957/46 "2018-02-21T06:09:01Z")
Bullet wounds aren’t sterile. Lots of bullets have an entry point and an exit point. If it is lodged, it matters if it has hit a nerve or blood vessel, organ, bone, joint, etc. I’ve seen someone die from a bullet fragment that embolizes to the heart. If it is in fatty flesh, it might be tough to get out (but easier under ultrasound or fluoroscopy). If there are many pieces, the smaller and anatomically safe pieces might well be ignored. Bullets close to the heart, brain and spinal column make trauma teams nervous. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bullet-can-stay-lodged-in-someones-body-like-forever-and-no-problemo/808957/47 "2018-02-21T06:25:06Z")
I know an Aussie who was shot in the face in Thailand about 1990 and claims still to be carrying the bullet in his head. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bullet-can-stay-lodged-in-someones-body-like-forever-and-no-problemo/808957/48 "2018-02-21T12:56:58Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I would assume that the entire bullet would heat up from both the propellant and the friction of moving through the atmosphere at several hundred m/s). Assuming the bullet is moving at the speed of sound (about right for a handgun), and assuming an ambient temp of about 70F, adiabatic heating due to compression will generate a temp of around 150F at the very flattest part of the front of the bullet; the temp will be lower everywhere else. The bullet material itself is cold, so exposure to 150F air for a few milliseconds won’t heat up the surface very much; any bacteria there will do just fine. Contrast this with an [autoclave,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoclave) which applies moist heat at about 250F for 15-20 minutes to achieve true sterilization. Even if we suppose the bullet is truly sterile, the target’s skin is not - unless the shooter was courteous enough to swab the target’s skin with Betadine for a few minutes before shooting him. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bullet-can-stay-lodged-in-someones-body-like-forever-and-no-problemo/808957/49 "2018-02-21T17:18:13Z")
Foreign bodies which are left in muscle tissue eventually become encapsulated by scar tissue and can remain asymptomatic for years or decades. Absent infection, they are usually only a problem when they are close to sensitive areas (major blood vessels, organs) or they migrate to those areas over time; or, when their location prevents angiogenesis, or the “re-routing” of blood vessels around the foreign obstruction. the body reacts to internal prostheses the same way it does to bullets or other foreign matter, except that protheses are generally sterile. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bullet-can-stay-lodged-in-someones-body-like-forever-and-no-problemo/808957/50 "2018-02-21T19:47:10Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Assuming the bullet is moving at the speed of sound (about right for a handgun), and assuming an ambient temp of about 70F, adiabatic heating due to compression will generate a temp of around 150F at the very flattest part of the front of the bullet; the temp will be lower everywhere else. The bullet material itself is cold, so exposure to 150F air for a few milliseconds won’t heat up the surface very much; any bacteria there will do just fine. Contrast this with an [autoclave,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoclave) which applies moist heat at about 250F for 15-20 minutes to achieve true sterilization. > > Even if we suppose the bullet is truly sterile, the target’s skin is not - unless the shooter was courteous enough to swab the target’s skin with Betadine for a few minutes before shooting him. I did some searching. Apparently someone actually did a study by firing contaminated bullets into sterile ballistics gel. I don’t have an account to read anything more than the abstract. But it would appear that the in-flight conditions of a bullet do not guarantee sterilization. > **[Autosterilization in low-velocity bullets - PubMed](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/621766/)** > > Following a previous study (1) in which contaminated low-velocity bullets were discharged into sterile gelatin blocks with resultant growth of organisms along projectile tracts, the authors fired bullets coated with 1 drop of Staph.... ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bullet-can-stay-lodged-in-someones-body-like-forever-and-no-problemo/808957/51 "2018-02-21T19:57:41Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I’ve never heard that it was Roosevelt who had anything to do with that. The issue with the building of the Panama Canal was not germs or bacteria per se, but diseases that were spread by mosquitoes like malaria and yellow fever. The US, under the direction of William Gorgas, “cleaned up” Panama City and the Canal Zone, but it was to get rid of mosquito breeding areas, not to get rid of germs directly. Yes, that is it. I had it all jumbled up. It was explained to him and he gave the order to facilitate the clean up. These measures then spread. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mr.Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Bill)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bullet-can-stay-lodged-in-someones-body-like-forever-and-no-problemo/808957/52 "2018-02-21T20:47:10Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Maybe also from bits of debris pulled into the wound by the bullet. I’m not sure about that part. As I understand it, the reason Army Surgeons in the Civil War were so quick to amputate wounded extremities is that the Minie Ball ammunition commonly used by both sides was extremely good at dragging bits of clothing into the wound with itself. The grooves in the bullet tended to catch the cloth as it went through, shredding little bits off and bringing them into the wound. Since the uniform had likely been worn for several weeks without significant washing, while living rough in the field, it would have been a prime source of nasty bacteria. Lacking an effective means of sterilizing a deep penetrating wound, it was deemed preferable to sacrifice a limb to prevent the fatal gangrene that would likely follow. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bullet-can-stay-lodged-in-someones-body-like-forever-and-no-problemo/808957/53 "2018-02-21T22:11:07Z")
> [@bardos](#): > > A New York Yankee minor leaguer who lives in Venezuela, Thairo Estrada, was shot in the hip during a botched robbery attempt in his home country. According to the New York Post, the bullet remains lodged in his hip and there are no plans to remove it. In fact, he has started rehab and exercising with the bullet still there. Could it remain there forever? Not understanding this. > [@electronbee](#): > > Depends it seems. If the bullet is lodged and hasn’t caused any bone fractures than it seems to not be as much of an issue. Whereas bone fracture in combination with a lead bullet can lead to increased lead levels. > > [The effects of retained lead bullets on body lead burden - PubMed](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11371848) > > [Elevation of blood lead levels in emergency department patients with extra-articular retained missiles - PubMed](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15706190) > > [Change in blood lead concentration up to 1 year after a gunshot wound with a retained bullet - PubMed](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15033646) > > [Elevated blood lead resulting from maxillofacial gunshot injuries with lead ingestion - PubMed](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12730839) > > [Skeletal sarcoma on the site of retained war bullet fragments and a literature review on long-term complications of retained war shells - PubMed](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25207300) > > [Retained bullet removal in civilian pelvis and extremity gunshot injuries: a systematic review - PubMed](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23982410) > > Many factors it seems. Definitely, a bullet lodged within a joint can cause significant joint abnormality (“lead arthropathy”) and high systemic lead levels. Basically, the synovial fluid is good at dissolving out lead from the bullet. Especially after mechanical forces in the joint break the bullet up into small fragments. (This probably does not apply to the baseball player- the term hip is used pretty loosely, even by doctors, and can encompass a pretty large territory in and near the hip joint, including the buttock.) Two articles on lead arthropathy. [https://www.ajronline.org/doi/full/10.2214/ajr.176.5.1761144](https://www.ajronline.org/doi/full/10.2214/ajr.176.5.1761144) [http://www.baylorhealth.edu/Documents/BUMC%20Proceedings/2017\_Vol\_30/No\_1/30\_1\_McAninch.pdf](http://www.baylorhealth.edu/Documents/BUMC%20Proceedings/2017_Vol_30/No_1/30_1_McAninch.pdf) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bullet-can-stay-lodged-in-someones-body-like-forever-and-no-problemo/808957.md?page=2)