# A Bunch of nervous Nellies who don't feel safe eating in a Sonic where they can't carry guns. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 28, 2014, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423 "2014-05-28T01:27:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/401 "2014-06-17T03:49:12Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > I’m not trying to make you feel good. I was sharing information about one instance from my military career, and agreeing with the poster who said you can’t be complacent at the range (my words). > > Please. If we can’t have a civil discussion then take it to the Pit. But you’ll be alone. I won’t be there in your pissing contest. Bwahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa. " Gunpowder penetrates brain, impairs cognitive capabilities. Film at 11:00. " This is The Pit, pal. —Looking around— Hey, lookeehere. I’m not alone. [Quote=Bullitt] Yeah, I lost track of that. Thanks. ETA: Now I get Vinyl’s post. I’m having a slow moment. [/quote] Game Set Match. See, it’s all pretty funny. Except for the part where you’re allowed to kill people with your firearm and you cannot comprehend the inner workings of an Internet message board. Otherwise, har har har… :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/402 "2014-06-17T06:06:17Z")
::rolls eyes:: ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/403 "2014-06-17T12:46:19Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > Bwahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa. > > " Gunpowder penetrates brain, impairs cognitive capabilities. Film at 11:00. " > > This is The Pit, pal. > > —Looking around— Hey, lookeehere. I’m not alone. > > Game Set Match. See, it’s all pretty funny. Except for the part where you’re allowed to kill people with your firearm and you cannot comprehend the inner workings of an Internet message board. > > Otherwise, har har har… > > :dubious: Good Lord, **'Toons** , where the fuck did this come from? A guy momentarily forgets what forum he’s in. BFD. Give a guy a freakin’ break. Sure, it’s the Pit, but even here it’s better when you have an actual _reason_ to go medieval on someone’s ass. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/404 "2014-06-17T17:04:51Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > And now [a drunk guy can wander around Kalamazoo with a rifle on his shoulder](http://www.balloon-juice.com/2014/06/16/just-exercising-his-rights/), causing the usual tension: the police shut down the street and shoo everyone inside, because a drunk with a gun is dangerous - but he’s within his rights, so they can’t just shoot him if he refuses their orders to put the gun down. > > So he’s got the right to shut down a city block and scare the shit out of people. Interesting. > > Oddly enough, the police themselves seem to be somewhat in fear, based on the tone of their voices. I don’t know if Michigan’s a SYG state, but if it is, seems like they could have shot him on that account. And been within their rights as well. > > Gun rights are a funny thing. It is illegal to carry a gun while intoxicated everywhere I have heard of. Its one of the reasons i don’t really like hunting… lots of waiting, no alcohol and surpirsingly little chit chat. I am surprised that being drunk while carrying a gun is legal in Michigan. Heck it only recently became legal to carry a gun into a restaurant where alcohol is being served in Virginia. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/405 "2014-06-17T17:22:58Z")
Iowa gives gun permits to the _[blind](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/08/iowa-grants-gun-permits-to-the-blind/2780303/)_. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/406 "2014-06-17T18:44:55Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Iowa gives gun permits to the _[blind](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/08/iowa-grants-gun-permits-to-the-blind/2780303/)_. Wow. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/407 "2014-06-17T18:50:01Z")
> [@](#): > > On one side: People such as Cedar County Sheriff Warren Wethington, who demonstrated for The Des Moines Register how blind people can be taught to shoot guns. And Jane Hudson, executive director of Disability Rights Iowa, who says blocking visually impaired people from the right to obtain weapon permits would violate the Americans with Disabilities Act. That federal law generally prohibits different treatment based on disabilities. So, what’s a blind shooter to do if they are sufficiently threatened to draw their weapon? Do they yell out, LOUDLY, “Excuse me, but is there anyone else in my line of fire and also within 200 yards of me? Because if you are, I need to pull the trigger now, and you best should move!” ??? ETA: And, blind people are different than most of the rest of the public. (Intending to be factual, and not intending to call out the disability.) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/408 "2014-06-17T19:58:17Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > It is illegal to carry a gun while intoxicated everywhere I have heard of. Its one of the reasons i don’t really like hunting… lots of waiting, no alcohol and surpirsingly little chit chat. I am surprised that being drunk while carrying a gun is legal in Michigan. Heck it only recently became legal to carry a gun into a restaurant where alcohol is being served in Virginia. It may well be illegal to carry when drunk in Michigan and/or other states. The problem is, how do the police know he’s drunk? Until they can give him a field sobriety test, he’s just a guy with a gun who’s acting erratically. But that’s legal as church on Sunday. So apparently they can’t say, “drop the gun or we shoot” because he’s got every right to carry the gun. And until he drops the gun, as far as they know, he’s a perfectly sober obnoxious idiot. Catch-22! ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/409 "2014-06-18T13:47:21Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Iowa gives gun permits to the _[blind](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/08/iowa-grants-gun-permits-to-the-blind/2780303/)_. Thats pretty retarded. The ADA doesn’t prevent the government from preventing the blind operation of motor vehicles, I don’t see why it would prevent the blind operation of a gun. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > It may well be illegal to carry when drunk in Michigan and/or other states. > > The problem is, how do the police know he’s drunk? Until they can give him a field sobriety test, he’s just a guy with a gun who’s acting erratically. But that’s legal as church on Sunday. So apparently they can’t say, “drop the gun or we shoot” because he’s got every right to carry the gun. And until he drops the gun, as far as they know, he’s a perfectly sober obnoxious idiot. Catch-22! They can stop and question anyone they want on suspicion of breaking the law. What they probably wanted to avoid was confronting a drunk with a gun. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/410 "2014-06-18T14:39:33Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > They can stop and question anyone they want on suspicion of breaking the law. What they probably wanted to avoid was confronting a drunk with a gun. It all comes down to the same thing: where open carry is legal, you will have situations such as these that are perfectly legal but have to be taken seriously as threats to life and limb, to the extent of closing streets and shooing everyone inside. This is what happens when you make it legal for people to carry death sticks around in public. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/411 "2014-06-18T20:52:03Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > It all comes down to the same thing: where open carry is legal, you will have situations such as these that are perfectly legal but have to be taken seriously as threats to life and limb, to the extent of closing streets and shooing everyone inside. Reading the article, the cops asked him to put down his weapon. You are obligated to comply with that order in Michigan. So it seems he was breaking the law when he refused to surrender his weapon. [http://mscrgo.org/](http://mscrgo.org/) > [@](#): > > This is what happens when you make it legal for people to carry death sticks around in public. Well, there is open carry and there is brandishing. This guys sounds like he had crossed the line into brandishing. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/412 "2014-06-19T17:00:52Z")
Open Carry idiots[plan a march this weekend](http://www.burntorangereport.com/diary/15344/racebaiting-open-carry-advocates-to-march-through-5th-ward-in-houston) in Houston: > [@](#): > > In what they say is an effort to “show that gun rights belong to all” members of the open carry movement will walk through the 5th Ward on Sunday – a day after many Texans will be celebrating Juneteenth, in a predominantly African American area of Houston settled by former slaves just after the Civil War. The Facebook event claims the event will be a “canned food drive” and donations will be given to the “First Missionary Baptist Church.” > > The walk is being hosted by CJ Grisham, founder of Open Carry Texas, who was convicted of interfering with police duties over an incident where he was being questioned about his AR-15. The resulting conviction led to no jail time and he plans to appeal, but he was fined $2,000 and lost his concealed handgun license for 5 years. One does not need a license to open carry a long gun. On June 19th, 1865, a Union general landed in Galveston to announce (1) the war was over, (2) the Union had won, and (3) the Emancipation Proclamation had freed the slaves. Texas slavemasters had kept their “property” ignorant of that news. Since then, Juneteenth has been celebrated by African Americans in Texas–& some in other parts of the country. The bold freedom fighters behind this travesty are bravely posing in front of Lee’s office. But not the one in the Fifth Ward! It’s the one on 19th Street, in the Heights. Where the diversity is of a much paler tone… ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/413 "2014-06-19T18:25:24Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Reading the article, the cops asked him to put down his weapon. You are obligated to comply with that order in Michigan. So it seems he was breaking the law when he refused to surrender his weapon. [http://mscrgo.org/](http://mscrgo.org/) > > Well, there is open carry and there is brandishing. This guys sounds like he had crossed the line into brandishing. It isn’t a very precise line, though, is it? And it sounds like people had good reason to be afraid of this idiot, regardless of whether he stayed on the ‘good’ side of the line between open carry and brandishing. Hence the quotes around ‘good.’ To the rest of us, there’s scarcely a difference - maybe it takes the open carrier a fraction of a second longer than the brandisher to kill someone. It’s a distinction without a difference. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/414 "2014-06-19T18:51:05Z")
… and the concealed carrier maybe a second or two longer. But should \*that \*be the basis upon which we assess their threat levels? ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/415 "2014-06-19T19:03:49Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Thats pretty retarded. The ADA doesn’t prevent the government from preventing the blind operation of motor vehicles, I don’t see why it would prevent the blind operation of a gun. Remember that the next time you support a “shall issue” law that doesn’t include live-fire qualification. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2014, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/416 "2014-06-20T03:25:49Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > It isn’t a very precise line, though, is it? And it sounds like people had good reason to be afraid of this idiot, regardless of whether he stayed on the ‘good’ side of the line between open carry and brandishing. > > Hence the quotes around ‘good.’ To the rest of us, there’s scarcely a difference - maybe it takes the open carrier a fraction of a second longer than the brandisher to kill someone. It’s a distinction without a difference. Its clear enough that a cop can stop you and tell you to surrender your weapon pretty much whenever the fuck he wants around here and anyone that open carries is putting himself at the mercy of every cop that sees him and I’m in a pretty pro-gun state. Around here, you might be brandishing simply by letting the silhouette of your gun show through your shirt. displaying a holstered weapon might be brandishing. If you’ve got a gun in your hand, cops can definitely get you for brandishing. And how many more seconds do you think it takes for a concealed carrier to shoot someone? > [@Enginerd](#): > > Remember that the next time you support a “shall issue” law that doesn’t include live-fire qualification. I don’t oppose live fire requirements but I don’t see why I should oppose a “shall issue” law that doesn’t have one. My state doesn’t require live fire and we are not awash in blind conceal carry holders. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2014, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/417 "2014-06-21T00:48:45Z")
> **[Photos: Ladies tote shotguns and assault rifles into Target store](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/06/guns-target-open-carry-texas-women-corpus-christi/)** > > "An employee thought we weren't allowed…she said ok, then said guns are dangerous, LOL." Does this play differently when its a bunch of mothers taking their kids to Target for grocery shopping with a gun slung over their backs? Judging from the pictures, it is not clear that the guns are loaded, the magazine wells seem empty. ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2014, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/418 "2014-06-22T01:26:15Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > [Target Remains in Crosshairs of Texas Gun Fight – Mother Jones](http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/06/guns-target-open-carry-texas-women-corpus-christi) > > Does this play differently when its a bunch of mothers taking their kids to Target for grocery shopping with a gun slung over their backs? > > Judging from the pictures, it is not clear that the guns are loaded, the magazine wells seem empty. I’d feel safer about this if 1. they weren’t idiots. One of the mothers is quoted as feeling that her “rights are being infringed upon.” But these mothers have no right whatsoever to carry, or even to enter, the private property of a Target store. Armed protesters are bad enough to my sensibilities (even accompanied by children), but ones who don’t even know what they are protesting for inspire no confidence at all. 2. They weren’t being hypocritical. They are trying to “normalize” open carry by showing us it’s perfectly safe. So why are they using unloaded guns for this demonstration? Could it be that they don’t want to carry loaded weapons around their own children? 3. They weren’t violating gun-safety common sense. Third picture in the article, the woman in the green shirt has lost control of the rifle on her back. It is no longer pointing at the ceiling or floor; it’s pointing at just the right height to catch her daughter clean in the chest. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2014, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/419 "2014-06-22T02:32:59Z")
> [@Reyemile](#): > > I’d feel safer about this if > > 1. they weren’t idiots. One of the mothers is quoted as feeling that her “rights are being infringed upon.” But these mothers have no right whatsoever to carry, or even to enter, the private property of a Target store. Armed protesters are bad enough to my sensibilities (even accompanied by children), but ones who don’t even know what they are protesting for inspire no confidence at all. > > 2. They weren’t being hypocritical. They are trying to “normalize” open carry by showing us it’s perfectly safe. So why are they using unloaded guns for this demonstration? Could it be that they don’t want to carry loaded weapons around their own children? > > 3. They weren’t violating gun-safety common sense. Third picture in the article, the woman in the green shirt has lost control of the rifle on her back. It is no longer pointing at the ceiling or floor; it’s pointing at just the right height to catch her daughter clean in the chest. The woman in the third picture is the one whose magazine well is most clearly empty. I can’t really tell for sure with the other two. Considering how quickly you can put a magazine in a magazine well, I don’t see why you would want to carry loaded unholstered weapons. The woman in the faded jeans and blue t shirt in the third picture has a one point sling and those don’t ride up the way the other one does (I usually keep the rifle in across my front if I am using a two point sling (and frankly I hardly ever use a sling because I hardly ever carry a rifle outside of a gun range)). ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2014, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/420 "2014-06-22T02:41:32Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The woman in the third picture is the one whose magazine well is most clearly empty. I can’t really tell for sure with the other two. Considering how quickly you can put a magazine in a magazine well, I don’t see why you would want to carry loaded unholstered weapons. The woman in the faded jeans and blue t shirt in the third picture has a one point sling and those don’t ride up the way the other one does (I usually keep the rifle in across my front if I am using a two point sling (and frankly I hardly ever use a sling because I hardly ever carry a rifle outside of a gun range)). One woman appears to be carrying a shotgun so new, the sticker is still on it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423.md?page=22)