# A Bunch of nervous Nellies who don't feel safe eating in a Sonic where they can't carry guns. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 28, 2014, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423 "2014-05-28T01:27:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2014, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/421 "2014-06-22T10:08:50Z")
> [@Reyemile](#): > > 1. … Third picture in the article, the woman in the green shirt has lost control of the rifle on her back. It is no longer pointing at the ceiling or floor; it’s pointing at just the right height to catch her daughter clean in the chest. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The woman in the third picture is the one whose magazine well is most clearly empty. Eddie Eagle says it’s okay to let your rifle point directly at your toddler’s chest if you know it’s unloaded - because accidents never happen to lawful gun owners! ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2014, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/422 "2014-06-22T11:38:59Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Its clear enough that a cop can stop you and tell you to surrender your weapon pretty much whenever the fuck he wants around here and anyone that open carries is putting himself at the mercy of every cop that sees him and I’m in a pretty pro-gun state. > > Around here, you might be brandishing simply by letting the silhouette of your gun show through your shirt. displaying a holstered weapon might be brandishing. If you’ve got a gun in your hand, cops can definitely get you for brandishing. I don’t know what state you’re in (other than a state of continuing stupidity, but that’s neither here nor there). In Michigan, carrying the rifle openly apparently isn’t in and of itself illegal. In your state, it clearly is. > [@](#): > > And how many more seconds do you think it takes for a concealed carrier to shoot someone? Maybe one. Have you noticed that I’m against\* concealed carry as well? Or has that totally slipped by you? I’m altogether against people carrying death sticks around in public places. Someone could get killed with one of those things. \*I’m OK with issuing concealed carry permits, by court order, in the face of a demonstrated particular need for self-defense, e.g. wrathful ex-spouse. But that’s about it. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2014, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/423 "2014-06-22T11:46:27Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Eddie Eagle says it’s okay to let your rifle point directly at your toddler’s chest if you know it’s unloaded - because accidents never happen to lawful gun owners! No, silly - the magic phrase is “ **R** esponsible **G** un **O** wners ™” which of course allows them to work the “No True Scotsman” fallacy. Anyone whose guns result in an accidental death or wounding is of course not a **R** esponsible **G** un **O** wner. But of course the only way we can identify the non- **R** esponsible **G** un **O** wners is after an incident like that. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2014, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/424 "2014-06-22T11:48:47Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > [Target Remains in Crosshairs of Texas Gun Fight – Mother Jones](http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/06/guns-target-open-carry-texas-women-corpus-christi) > > Does this play differently when its a bunch of mothers taking their kids to Target for grocery shopping with a gun slung over their backs? Can’t think of a reason why it should. Death sticks are death sticks; in public is in public. Other than officers of the law, it doesn’t matter who’s doing the carrying, AFAIAC. ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2014, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/425 "2014-06-22T18:00:02Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > And how many more seconds do you think it takes for a concealed carrier to shoot someone? > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Considering how quickly you can put a magazine in a magazine well… ] There seems to be a little dissonance here… ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/426 "2014-06-22T21:03:47Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Eddie Eagle says it’s okay to let your rifle point directly at your toddler’s chest if you know it’s unloaded - because accidents never happen to lawful gun owners! Never forget that one of the four simple rules is that you can sometimes assume a gun is not loaded. Also, you can sometimes point a gun at something you don’t intend to kill. As long as you’re making a second amendment point, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/427 "2014-06-23T02:07:38Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Eddie Eagle says it’s okay to let your rifle point directly at your toddler’s chest if you know it’s unloaded - because accidents never happen to lawful gun owners! Yeah, because thats what I said. :rolleyes: > [@RTFirefly](#): > > I don’t know what state you’re in (other than a state of continuing stupidity, but that’s neither here nor there). In Michigan, carrying the rifle openly apparently isn’t in and of itself illegal. In your state, it clearly is. Its not illegal, but cops have a lot of discretion in determining when someone is brandishing and almost any form of open carry might be considered brandishing. Carrying outside a holster can be considered brandishing. Just letting the silhouette of your gun show through your shirt of jacket can be considered brandishing. I live in Virginia. > [@](#): > > Have you noticed that I’m against\* concealed carry as well? Or has that totally slipped by you? I’m altogether against people carrying death sticks around in public places. Someone could get killed with one of those things. > > \*I’m OK with issuing concealed carry permits, by court order, in the face of a demonstrated particular need for self-defense, e.g. wrathful ex-spouse. But that’s about it. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > Can’t think of a reason why it should. Death sticks are death sticks; in public is in public. Other than officers of the law, it doesn’t matter who’s doing the carrying, AFAIAC. And after all the instances of cops accidentally shooting people or killing people unjustly, what makes you think theya re any safer than the average CCW? > [@Reyemile](#): > > There seems to be a little dissonance here… Neither takes very long. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/428 "2014-06-23T15:59:04Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Its not illegal, but cops have a lot of discretion in determining when someone is brandishing and almost any form of open carry might be considered brandishing. Carrying outside a holster can be considered brandishing. Just letting the silhouette of your gun show through your shirt of jacket can be considered brandishing. > > I live in Virginia. I feel sorry for Virginia. And are you aware that Virginia law doesn’t apply in Michigan? Just checking. > [@](#): > > And after all the instances of cops accidentally shooting people or killing people unjustly, what makes you think theya re any safer than the average CCW? :dubious: :rolleyes: :dubious: :rolleyes: :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/429 "2014-06-23T17:33:11Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I feel sorry for Virginia. I don’t know how to take that. > [@](#): > > And are you aware that Virginia law doesn’t apply in Michigan? Just checking. I linked this earlier [http://mscrgo.org/](http://mscrgo.org/) It looks like Michigan has simialr laws and their cops probably have similar discretion. > [@](#): > > :dubious: :rolleyes: :dubious: :rolleyes: :dubious: You’re the one that thinks that cops can be armed but noone else. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/430 "2014-06-23T17:59:31Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I don’t know how to take that. Should I run out and get you a four year old child, since you can’t make head or tail of it? 😃 > [@](#): > > I linked this earlier > > [http://mscrgo.org/](http://mscrgo.org/) > > It looks like Michigan has simialr laws and their cops probably have similar discretion. No, you do your _own_ research. If you can’t be bothered to cut and paste, _here_, whatever you claim to have _already found, there_, that supposedly backs up your assertion, then I can’t be bothered to find it in the first place. > [@](#): > > You’re the one that thinks that cops can be armed but noone else. You’re the one who’s asserting that the police present as much of a threat to the public safety as gun owners are. Yeah, I think that’s just plain ridiculous. And you’re the one who’s making the assertion without any sort of backup. Yeah, I think you’re ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/431 "2014-07-02T18:25:52Z")
[Target today started banning guns from their stores nationwide.](http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/07/02/target-no-guns-policy/12014451/) > [@](#): > > “We’ve listened carefully to the nuances of this debate and respect the protected rights of everyone involved. In return, we are asking for help in fulfilling our goal to create an atmosphere that is safe and inviting for our guests and team members.” ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/432 "2014-07-02T20:39:11Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > [Target today started banning guns from their stores nationwide.](http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/07/02/target-no-guns-policy/12014451/) Yeah, well, with a name like “Target”, they kind of have to. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/433 "2014-07-02T21:40:55Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Never forget that one of the four simple rules is that you can sometimes assume a gun is not loaded. Also, you can sometimes point a gun at something you don’t intend to kill. > > As long as you’re making a second amendment point, of course. That’s why i always liked double barrel shotguns. Once you “pop” them open, the shells eject or at least retract a little way out, the firing pin has NO way to hit the primer, and they CAN’T fire. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/434 "2014-07-03T01:14:28Z")
Just to follow up on my earlier claim that anyone seen open carrying around here would draw attention. Today, two young men were seen carrying what was described as an "AK47"along a bikepath in my old neighborhood. The police were called, and the two were carted off in handcuffs. I have not seen nor heard an official report on this, so I don’t claim they were arrested for carrying a firearm (long arms are legal to carry here) but I am reassured that my former neighbors share my distaste at the thought of open carry enough that the police were called. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/435 "2014-07-03T02:19:51Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > [Target today started banning guns from their stores nationwide.](http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/07/02/target-no-guns-policy/12014451/) Not quite; they’re straddling the fence by saying that they’re “respectfully requesting” that people not carry. Whether this is a “ban” or not depends on whether security will be showing anyone open-carrying to the door. I’ve seen comments on both sides of the debate claim this as a victory. My guess: more permit holders will decide that “concealed is concealed”, and continue to carry in Target without making a fuss. My suggestions for long gun (rifle and shotgun) carry etiquette: don’t do it just to make a point; and if you are carrying keep it in a case. ---
**Author:** ![WWhiskey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@WWhiskey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WWhiskey)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/436 "2014-07-03T03:08:17Z")
never had a problem carrying my guns at the sonic, It’s a drive up, most all of my guns are already stored in the truck, Im not understanding the problem here! ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/437 "2014-07-03T11:52:18Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > My guess: more permit holders will decide that “concealed is concealed”, and continue to carry in Target without making a fuss. Which confirms my suspicions that more permit holders are dicks. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/438 "2014-07-03T12:31:00Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Which confirms my suspicions that more permit holders are dicks. It’s like that “tree falls in the forest” deal… If you’re carrying concealed, and nobody sees the gun, are you a threat or a concern to the other shoppers? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/439 "2014-07-03T13:18:44Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > It’s like that “tree falls in the forest” deal… If you’re carrying concealed, and nobody sees the gun, are you a threat or a concern to the other shoppers? There is no way to know. Every permit holder is a responsible gun owner. Until they are not, and somebody gets hurt. As a business owner, it is my right to request that patrons not bring guns into my establishment. Anyone who can’t respect that is a dick. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/440 "2014-07-03T13:58:08Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Not quite; they’re straddling the fence by saying that they’re “respectfully requesting” that people not carry. “Respectfully requesting” is obviously PR-speak, like John Gotti was really “just a businessman”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423.md?page=23)