# A Bunch of nervous Nellies who don't feel safe eating in a Sonic where they can't carry guns. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 28, 2014, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423 "2014-05-28T01:27:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/481 "2014-07-04T17:22:27Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > If someone is killed by gunshot, it makes the papers. I don’t believe for a second that there’s a significant number of gun deaths that go unreported in the press. It means that the CC status of all homicide offenders is not necessarily discernible through a review of news reports. Really? Is thinking things through really this tough? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/482 "2014-07-04T17:28:20Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Are you asserting that as a fact, or is it more like an unsupported musing? People who feel particularly vulnerable would feel a need self-protection. About 70% of Americans don’t feel so vulnerable. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/483 "2014-07-04T17:33:20Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > It means that the CC status of all homicide offenders is not necessarily discernible through a review of news reports. Really? Is thinking things through really this tough? You really believe that if a CCW holder commits murder, the press won’t report it? Or not mention the fact it was a CCW holder? This is the know-nothing-about-guns-except-they’re-evil press we’re talking about. And your cite mentions nothing about the gun deaths that are committed by non-CCW holders. Why? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/484 "2014-07-04T17:51:54Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > People who feel particularly vulnerable would feel a need self-protection. About 70% of Americans don’t feel so vulnerable. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/485 "2014-07-04T17:55:25Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > You really believe that if a CCW holder commits murder, the press won’t report it? Or not mention the fact it was a CCW holder? > > This is the know-nothing-about-guns-except-they’re-evil press we’re talking about. > > And your cite mentions nothing about the gun deaths that are committed by non-CCW holders. Why? Think real hard and you may get it. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/486 "2014-07-04T18:00:31Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Cite? You need a cite that about 30% of Americans own guns??? Well, okay. > **[Share of Homes With Guns Shows 4-Decade Decline (Published 2013)](https://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/us/rate-of-gun-ownership-is-down-survey-shows.html?pagewanted=all)** > > The rate has fallen from an average of 50 percent in the 1970s to 35 percent in the 2000s, suggesting a shift in demographics even as the debate over gun control remains contentious. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/487 "2014-07-04T18:20:59Z")
No - a cite that 70% of Americans don’t feel so vulnerable. And a cite that people who feel particularly vulnerable would feel a need for self protection. And a cite that somehow feeling a need for self protection equates to owning a gun. There are some leaps of logic that don’t work there. But what you originally said: > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I do think that people who want to carry guns are more likely to be nervous nellies - that is true. That’s what I really want a cite for. Unless this is unsupported conjecture. If that’s the case, no cite necessary. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/488 "2014-07-04T18:45:07Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > By that reasoning, police officers are threats; no suppositions about character or motives remember. Well, yeah. Why do you think people are so freaking scared of police? Why do you think people kowtow and do what they say and are scared to death to cross them? Police specifically carry weapons to be more intimidating than the average joe. Police officers deliberately make themselves threatening to intimidate lawbreakers–and it carries over to everyone else. I have friends who are cops, and I am definitely more intimidated by them when they are carrying their gun. They even adopt a completely different attitude. I don’t know why you guys don’t understand that, all else being equal, someone carrying a weapon that is lethal from a distance with no added strength is scarier than someone who does not. It’s just inherent. Heck, it’s why gun carrying is a deterrent, that thing you guys go on and on about. The fact that people carry scares criminals into thinking they may be shot. I live in a red state. I’m not exactly pro-gun, but I’m not anti-gun either. I have plenty of friends who carry. I just don’t see why you guys have a hard time admitting that guns are inherently dangerous and thus scary. It’s why you are drilled so hard on safety procedures. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/489 "2014-07-04T19:06:27Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > How would you like to be accused of being a pedophile? And every time you insisted you weren’t, you were told that that was proof that you’re in denial? Because I’m getting really, really sick of anti’s claiming that gun carriers are “afraid” and “in fear”. Which is ludicrous coming from people who pee their pants and shriek that they’re in mortal danger at the very sight of someone with a holstered sidearm. You seem to be forgetting that gun carriers have no problem with other people carrying too. We don’t phone in panicked “man with a gun” calls to 911, and we don’t insist that banning carry is indispensable to public safety. Who’s the quivering neurotic here? > > Grow up. That is one enormous pile of straw, I would suggest moving away from it if you need to fire your gun – I mean, setting ablaze is unlikely, but better safe than have that thing burning for weeks on end. > [@BigT](#): > > Well, yeah. Why do you think people are so freaking scared of police? Why do you think people kowtow and do what they say and are scared to death to cross them? Police specifically carry weapons to be more intimidating than the average joe. Police officers deliberately make themselves threatening to intimidate lawbreakers–and it carries over to everyone else. > > I have friends who are cops, and I am definitely more intimidated by them when they are carrying their gun. They even adopt a completely different attitude. The constabulary tend to has a fairly standard amount of training, not to mention the pine-riding and paperwork that comes with each actual use of their firearms on duty (except, perhaps, for those SWAT LECs). Any random individual with a gun is kind of an unknown quantity. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/490 "2014-07-04T19:12:34Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > That is one enormous pile of straw, I would suggest moving away from it if you need to fire your gun – I mean, setting ablaze is unlikely, but better safe than have that thing burning for weeks on end. IOW, you have nothing but sarcasm to respond to my post with. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/491 "2014-07-05T00:10:49Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Since May of 2007, 644 people have been killed by ccw permitted people in non-defensive incidents. This is as identified ONLY through media sources, so the true number is higher still. > > [http://www.vpc.org/ccwkillers.htm](http://www.vpc.org/ccwkillers.htm) > > The ability of you people to convince yourself of the clean categories that people fall in is delusional. Breathtakingly so. I can get to the site now. Unfortunately, many of the cases they list show “Suicide” and “Pending” as their status. Some cases haven’t been updated for 3 years or more and are still “Pending.” It doesn’t seem like it’s comparing apples to apples to include suicides or cases where a determination of guilt hasn’t been made, does it? I mean it still supports a theory that CCW holders are not at all exempt from committing crimes or having mental problems, but I’m not sure their numbers are accurate without more disclaimers involved. And the odds ratio doesn’t seem to be on the website, comparing CCW with non-CCW holders, or the population in general, over the same time period. I know the numbers aren’t terribly difficult to arrive at, so they must have it. Can you supply a link please? I’d like to see if there is evidence that I should consider updating a column with Cecil. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/492 "2014-07-05T01:40:01Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > IOW, you have nothing but sarcasm to respond to my post with. Yes, you are right, I should have let that vapidity deflate of its own accord. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/493 "2014-07-05T15:56:43Z")
I’ve already quickly departed a place where someone was openly carrying. Wasn’t in New York. I trust a cop (yes, almost always!) or a uniformed guard. Everyone else I’m leery of. Why take a chance? ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bruce\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/494 "2014-07-05T16:37:14Z")
Why leave the house? Why take the chance? ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/495 "2014-07-05T20:45:48Z")
Any guy who feels the need to carry a firearm with him wherever he goes in order to feel safe is a fucking pussy. Sack up, you pathetic little bitches. ---
**Author:** ![WWhiskey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@WWhiskey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WWhiskey)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/496 "2014-07-06T16:53:57Z")
I don’t carry to feel safe, I carry incase my safety is threatened ! If you feel safe without carrying, good for you! I have no problem with your right to carry or not , sadly tho, my rights are the ones you’d threaten if given the chance! but just to be clear, you think cops are pussies? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/497 "2014-07-06T20:17:04Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > That’s why i always liked double barrel shotguns. Once you “pop” them open, the shells eject or at least retract a little way out, the firing pin has NO way to hit the primer, and they CAN’T fire. Any break action gun is going to give those around you that comfort. The local skeet range requires break action shotguns and if you do not carry the gun with the action open, people give you dirty looks and the staff yells at you. > [@JohnT](#): > > This is really a question? > > Assuming I’m not being wooshed… yes, one carrying a concealed firearm into a store is a threat to the other shoppers. There were concealed carriers in that store long before the open carry guys started walking around with AR-15s. Its the SIGHT of the guns thats giving everyone the vapors. (BTW, I don’t think open carry in stores is a good idea, shock therapy/=exposure therapy. > [@JohnT](#): > > Yeah… I can see the problem here. Lack of logic. The problem is the inability to see things through anything other than your particular lens. CCWs are as a general matter more law abiding than the general population. Or are you talking about criminals that are concealed carrying, in which case, I’d say those guys are pretty dangerous… we should probably make it illegal for criminals to concealed carry.:rolleyes: > [@eschereal](#): > > It seems not to have mattered. The guy _got himself killed_. If he was an off-duty cop, chances are he would not have been so rash, had assessed the situation before moving in. You have any basis for that or are you just guessing? > [@](#): > > I perceive armed citizenry creating more problems than it solves You ever think that maybe your perception is wrong? > [@](#): > > I would prefer to feel that most of the people around me are not so paralyzingly paranoid that they need a metal dick to feel comfortable in public. Riiiight. Because everyone with a gun has a small dick.:rolleyes: > [@Una\_Persson](#): > > I’d prefer people weren’t misogynistic by declaring that women, who do carry, suffer from a need to have a “metal dick.” > > So when I carry my gun, it’s because I want a “metal dick?” Do I even need to link to my MPSIMS thread to show how _freaking insane_ that sounds? It may be misogynist, but its all they got. > [@running\_coach](#): > > [This study](http://www.mcrgo.org/mcrgo/doc_pdf/MichiganConcealedCarryStudy.pdf) was done in Michigan over a 5 year period. (PDF) There were similar results in Texas (non CCW holders were about 20 times more likely to be convicted in 2009). > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > People who feel particularly vulnerable would feel a need self-protection. About 70% of Americans don’t feel so vulnerable. Some people don’t think guns are much more out of the ordinary than an emergency kit in the trunk and doesn’t really come from feeling particularly vulnerable. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/498 "2014-07-07T18:35:24Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Some people don’t think guns are much more out of the ordinary than an emergency kit in the trunk and doesn’t really come from feeling particularly vulnerable. Y’know, I don’t really _care_ what they think. Guns are lethal weapons. That’s _all_ they are. That means they’re inherently dangerous, and serve no purpose _other_ than to be dangerous. Your emergency kit in the trunk doesn’t represent a threat to anyone, unless you hit someone over the head with it, and chances are you wouldn’t even send the victim to the hospital if you did so. So keep your gun to defend your ‘castle’ if you must. Or to be ready for the Wingnut Revolution To Overthrow the Obama Socialist Despotism. But keep the damned thing at home until the revolution starts, okay? Unless it’s a hunting rifle, and it’s hunting season. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/499 "2014-07-07T19:13:16Z")
That so many gun owners take it so casually is a _problem_, **DA**. \*Not \*a justification. \*Both \*the presence of devices intended to kill \*and \*the lack of treatment of them as such are contributing factors to our constantly-increasing death toll. The death toll is very much a problem, **DA** , even though you cannot understand the concept. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2014, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/500 "2014-07-08T01:11:52Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Y’know, I don’t really _care_ what they think. > > Guns are lethal weapons. That’s _all_ they are. That means they’re inherently dangerous, and serve no purpose _other_ than to be dangerous. > > Your emergency kit in the trunk doesn’t represent a threat to anyone, unless you hit someone over the head with it, and chances are you wouldn’t even send the victim to the hospital if you did so. > > So keep your gun to defend your ‘castle’ if you must. Or to be ready for the Wingnut Revolution To Overthrow the Obama Socialist Despotism. But keep the damned thing at home until the revolution starts, okay? Unless it’s a hunting rifle, and it’s hunting season. And, in turn, I don’t really care what you think. So. Where does that leave us? You haven’t had much luck trying to pushing back expanding gun laws, but maybe that will change someday. Until that day arrives, I am curious to know what you intend to do when you are forced to look at people lawfully carrying guns in public. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423.md?page=26)