# A Bunch of nervous Nellies who don't feel safe eating in a Sonic where they can't carry guns. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 28, 2014, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423 "2014-05-28T01:27:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/541 "2014-07-10T12:57:47Z")
So, guns don’t kill people, the byproduct of their existence kills people. Good to know. I still think the gun helps. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/542 "2014-07-10T13:00:07Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > So, guns don’t kill people, the byproduct of their existence kills people. Good to know. > > I still think the gun helps. The gun has no independent desire to help or hurt. It’s a tool, used by people to accomplish their end. It’s fair to say that guns kill people, as long as we understand that the meaning of that line is that people decided to use the gun to kill, and the gun was the tool to accomplish that end. ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/543 "2014-07-10T14:31:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The gun has no independent desire to help or hurt. It’s a tool, used by people to accomplish their end. So we’re all agreed that guns are inanimate objects. Glad we’re on the same page. > [@](#): > > It’s fair to say that guns kill people, as long as we understand that the meaning of that line is that people decided to use the gun to kill, and the gun was the tool to accomplish that end. It’s not fair to say that people decided to use guns to kill. It’s fair to say that people decided to kill, so they made guns to make killing easier. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/544 "2014-07-10T15:08:06Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Boy, talk about a semantic quibble! The dangerousness of guns is _just a byproduct_ of their existence! > > Good then! We can make changes to guns to remove all the potential danger from their use, but they’ll still exist, and everyone will be happy. Because their dangerousness is _just a byproduct_, and _not an essential property_ of guns. > > Well, I’m glad we finally settled this debate. Buahahahahahahaha!! This is why I started with acknowledging that I wasn’t sure if it was simply a semantic quibble, or an indicator of an underlying genuine belief in something factually untrue. If it was merely poor phrasing on your part then it is a semantic quibble - poorly chosen phrasing that conveyed something you didn’t intend. Based on this response, it seems that’s not the case. Your inititial statement that prompted the comment was the assertion that: > [@RTFirefly](#): > > Guns are lethal weapons. That’s _all_ they are. That means they’re inherently dangerous, **and serve no purpose _other_ than to be dangerous.** (my bold) This is false and you are wrong. Not ackowledging that is willful ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/545 "2014-07-10T16:01:56Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > This is false and you are wrong. Not ackowledging that is willful ignorance. OK, what’s their ‘other purpose’ that isn’t based on their potential lethality? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/546 "2014-07-10T16:06:32Z")
> [@Reyemile](#): > > It’s fair to say that people decided to kill, so they made guns to make killing easier. If I’m being unprovokedly attacked by someone a lot bigger than me, or by a group of people, hell yeah I want something that will make killing them easier. Or more to the point, something that they know would make killing them easier so they don’t attack me in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/547 "2014-07-10T16:33:22Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > OK, what’s their ‘other purpose’ that isn’t based on their potential lethality? 😕 See post [#534.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17534099&postcount=534) But even still, what you say above is different than what you said originally. First you said that firearms _“serve no purpose other than to be dangerous.”_ Now you are asking what their other purposes there may be that isn’t based on their potential lethality [dangerousness]. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/548 "2014-07-10T16:51:56Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > See post [#534.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17534099&postcount=534) > > But even still, what you say above is different than what you said originally. First you said that firearms _“serve no purpose other than to be dangerous.”_ Now you are asking what their other purposes there may be that isn’t based on their potential lethality [dangerousness]. The semantic quibble you’re making here is so fine that I can’t see daylight between the things you claim to be distinguishing. And with respect to post 534: They are useless for self-defense _unless they are dangerous_. They are useless for hunting _unless they are dangerous_. Their dangerousness is at the heart of these uses. It’s true that they can still be collectibles without being dangerous, but any damn thing can be collected, so the fact that guns are collected too says nothing about guns. And you’re a freakin’ idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/549 "2014-07-10T17:05:24Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > If I’m being unprovokedly attacked by someone a lot bigger than me, or by a group of people, hell yeah I want something that will make killing them easier. Or more to the point, something that they know would make killing them easier so they don’t attack me in the first place. Nervous Nellie. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/550 "2014-07-10T17:11:05Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Nervous Nellie. Although I’m hesitant to participate in a gun thread in the Pit, is this a whoosh? ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/551 "2014-07-10T17:17:19Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I don’t know if this is semantics really. The positive utility is had by virtue of the firearm being able to project force. That in itself possesses an element of danger, both to the user, and to the err, _recipient_. No real argument there. > > The main quibble I would have is your earlier statement that they serve no other purpose than to be dangerous. That is not their purpose. Being dangerous is a byproduct of their existence, but not the intended purpose. If we could invent a taser with the range and firing rate of an AR-15, would you be okay with banning gunpowder-and-lead AR-15s? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/552 "2014-07-10T17:17:25Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Although I’m hesitant to participate in a gun thread in the Pit, is this a whoosh? Most people aren’t terrified that they’ll get attacked every time they leave the house. Or the shorthand version, Nervous Nellie. Its not normal to be shitting yourself in fear every time you poke your head out of your front door. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/553 "2014-07-10T17:30:36Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > > [@RTFirefly](#): > > > > Guns are lethal weapons. That’s _all_ they are. That means they’re inherently dangerous, **and serve no purpose _other_ than to be dangerous.** > > (my bold) > This is false and you are wrong. Not ackowledging that is willful ignorance. My position is correct if I can identify a single purpose for firearms that is not ‘being dangerous’. The fact that a firearm may remain dangerous while fulfilling another purpose is irrelevant to disproving your claim. Firearms can serve the purpose of competition target shooting. You’re claim is false. ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/554 "2014-07-10T17:30:42Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > If I’m being unprovokedly attacked by someone a lot bigger than me, or by a group of people, hell yeah I want something that will make killing them easier. Or more to the point, something that they know would make killing them easier so they don’t attack me in the first place. So you agree with me: guns are tools for killing. They may have utility, but that utility lies in their very nature as dangerous weapons. It is not, as **Bone** claims and **Bricker** appears to support, a tool with its own utility that also happens to be dangerous ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/555 "2014-07-10T17:34:01Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > My position is correct if I can identify a single purpose for firearms that is not ‘being dangerous’. The fact that a firearm may remain dangerous while fulfilling another purpose is irrelevant to disproving your claim. > > Firearms can serve the purpose of competition target shooting. You’re claim is false. I think the targets would describe the guns as dangerous if you asked them. What if instead of saying that the only purpose is to be dangerous, the claim was that their only purpose is to destroy what they are aimed at. Is that also objectionable? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/556 "2014-07-10T17:35:12Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > My position is correct if I can identify a single purpose for firearms that is not ‘being dangerous’. Unless it’s the \*primary \*purpose of a weapon someone is _carrying in public_, no, all you’ll have done is acknowledge the main point. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/557 "2014-07-10T17:40:06Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Firearms can serve the purpose of competition target shooting. You’re claim is false. [Target shooting is dangerous.](http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-09-18/news/chi-cops-man-critically-injured-in-lyons-gun-range-incident-20130917_1_gun-range-shooting-death-shooting-range) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/558 "2014-07-10T17:50:14Z")
> [@Reyemile](#): > > So you agree with me: guns are tools for killing. They may have utility, but that utility lies in their very nature as dangerous weapons. It is not, as **Bone** claims and **Bricker** appears to support, a tool with its own utility that also happens to be dangerous This is such a weird formulation of the case that I’d like to ask a few questions to understand it better. Does a knife also have a very nature as a dangerous weapon? How about an arrow, or a compound bow with arrow? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/559 "2014-07-10T18:07:59Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Y’know, I don’t really _care_ what they think. I’m pretty sure they don’t \*care[/] what YOU think either. > [@](#): > > But keep the damned thing at home until the revolution starts, okay? No. Get used to living in a nation of laws that guarantees the right to bear arms and if you want the law changed so that people cannot carry otuside the home then get 2/3rds of each chamber of congress and 3/4ths of the states to agree with you, okay? > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > our constantly-increasing death toll. cite. > [@](#): > > The death toll is very much a problem, **DA** , even though you cannot understand the concept. You’re an idiot. This is why you can’t hang in great debates. Your arguments are shit. You are very stupid and if you didn’t happen to be parroting liberal, you would be wrong most of the timke about everything. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/560 "2014-07-10T18:13:53Z")
“Depraved indifference to human life”. Look it up. You won’t be able to understand it, being afflicted by it, but do look it up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423.md?page=29)