# A Bunch of nervous Nellies who don't feel safe eating in a Sonic where they can't carry guns. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 28, 2014, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423 "2014-05-28T01:27:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/621 "2014-07-16T15:52:26Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Wrong. It was about the fact that guns are inherently dangerous, and that you can’t really separate that from their intended uses. > > If you can build a gun that can reliably kill wild game, but can’t do serious damage to people, then I would stand corrected on this point. But I can’t build a sledgehammer that can reliably drive sledges into lumber yet not harm people either, and yet you don’t seem to want to do your imitation of a scared rabbit if you happen to see a worker carrying a sledgehammer stop by a restaurant for a bite. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > I could care less whether there’s an element of fear involved on the part of the person carrying a gun around in public. > > Because if I see someone in a public place with a gun, there will damned sure be an element of fear on _my_ part. > > Someone in the blogosphere recently suggested that the proper response to someone carrying a gun into a place of business you’re patronizing is to simply leave. Hell, yeah. I’m out of there, as quietly and unobtrusively as possible. If I’m in the middle of a restaurant meal, I’m not finishing it, I’m not waiting for the check, I’m not passing Go, I’m not collecting $200. I’m just sliding towards the door, and hoping to get out before I’m noticed. And you’re not paying the check? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/622 "2014-07-16T16:06:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But I can’t build a sledgehammer that can reliably drive sledges into lumber yet not harm people either, and yet you don’t seem to want to do your imitation of a scared rabbit if you happen to see a worker carrying a sledgehammer stop by a restaurant for a bite. Have I mentioned lately that your tendency toward being over-pedantic sure makes you a complete idiot? I mean, do I really have to explain why I’d be much less afraid of the guy with the sledgehammer than the guy with the gun? Are you really that dumb? No, you’re not. I have to assume you’re doing this out of sheer jerkitude. > [@](#): > > And you’re not paying the check? I’m getting away from threats to my life. I’m damned sure not going to stop on the way out the door to ask for the check. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/623 "2014-07-16T16:08:51Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Have I mentioned lately that your tendency toward being over-pedantic sure makes you a complete idiot? > > I mean, do I really have to explain why I’d be much less afraid of the guy with the sledgehammer than the guy with the gun? > > Are you really that dumb? > > No, you’re not. I have to assume you’re doing this out of sheer jerkitude. > > I’m getting away from threats to my life. I’m damned sure not going to stop on the way out the door to ask for the check. Your perception that a person with a holstered gun is a threat to your life that justifies your departure from a restaurant without paying your bill is unreasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/624 "2014-07-16T16:19:58Z")
Would a person with an unholstered gun justify leaving? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/625 "2014-07-16T17:28:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Your perception that a person with a holstered gun is a threat to your life that justifies your departure from a restaurant without paying your bill is unreasonable. We clearly have different definitions of reasonableness. I have a deep aversion to being around random people carrying devices that they can use to blow a big hole through my body at a second’s notice. If you don’t share that aversion, that’s fine and dandy for you. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/626 "2014-07-16T18:06:05Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Would a person with an unholstered gun justify leaving? A person brandishing a gun would justify leaving. “Unholstered” is too non-specific. It could refer to a pistol in a locked carrying case or a long gun slung over the back of a shoulder. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/627 "2014-07-16T18:07:07Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > We clearly have different definitions of reasonableness. > > I have a deep aversion to being around random people carrying devices that they can use to blow a big hole through my body at a second’s notice. > > If you don’t share that aversion, that’s fine and dandy for you. I don’t. And more to the point, society (in most states) doesn’t either. A state that permits people to carry firearms has already made the determination. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/628 "2014-07-16T18:19:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > A person brandishing a gun would justify leaving. “Unholstered” is too non-specific. It could refer to a pistol in a locked carrying case or a long gun slung over the back of a shoulder. How quickly could a long gun slung over the back of a shoulder be brandished? My recollection of the photos in the article were various nasty looking guns on straps that could be in hand and firing with only a few hand movements. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/629 "2014-07-16T18:39:10Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > How quickly could a long gun slung over the back of a shoulder be brandished? My recollection of the photos in the article were various nasty looking guns on straps that could be in hand and firing with only a few hand movements. Same way a holstered gun could be pulled very quickly, I imagine. So what? You seem to support the idea that someone carrying a gun is a danger. But laugh at the idea that someone else would wish to arm himself against that danger. If I say, “I want to carry a gun because I’m concerned about being attacked,” you suggest that’s foolish. But if you see someone with a holstered gun, you think it’s normal to assume you’ll be attacked. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/630 "2014-07-17T13:19:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t. And more to the point, society (in most states) doesn’t either. A state that permits people to carry firearms has already made the determination. Given that most people have only the vaguest idea of what’s going on in their state legislatures, confusing ‘society’ with what such bodies do under the assorted pressures applied to them is really a pretty dumb thing. Almost, but not quite, as dumb as the bit about the sledgehammer. You’re really doing yourself proud here, counselor. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/631 "2014-07-17T13:25:46Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Same way a holstered gun could be pulled very quickly, I imagine. > > So what? > > You seem to support the idea that someone carrying a gun is a danger. But laugh at the idea that someone else would wish to arm himself against that danger. > > If I say, “I want to carry a gun because I’m concerned about being attacked,” you suggest that’s foolish. But if you see someone with a holstered gun, you think it’s normal to assume you’ll be attacked. Speaking of stupidity, this post is a rich vein to mine. Just to pick on one before I get back to work: “But if you see someone with a holstered gun, you think it’s normal to assume you’ll be attacked.” Where do you get that from? We stay indoors during thunderstorms not because we _assume_ we’ll get hit by lightning if we go outside, but because there’s certainly a risk of being zapped if we go outside that isn’t there if we stay inside - a risk that is generally unnecessary to take. Same thing with people who carry guns in public. I don’t assume someone carrying a gun will attack me, but he is bringing a risk into my life that wouldn’t be there if he weren’t carrying, and AFAIAC, it’s unnecessary and unreasonable for him to foist that risk on me. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/632 "2014-07-17T13:37:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You seem to support the idea that someone carrying a gun is a danger. But laugh at the idea that someone else would wish to arm himself against that danger. And then no one is safe until everyone is armed. I don’t care for that version of society. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/633 "2014-07-17T13:52:47Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Speaking of stupidity, this post is a rich vein to mine. > > Just to pick on one before I get back to work: > > “But if you see someone with a holstered gun, you think it’s normal to assume you’ll be attacked.” > > Where do you get that from? We stay indoors during thunderstorms not because we _assume_ we’ll get hit by lightning if we go outside, but because there’s certainly a risk of being zapped if we go outside that isn’t there if we stay inside - a risk that is generally unnecessary to take. > > Same thing with people who carry guns in public. I don’t assume someone carrying a gun will attack me, but he is bringing a risk into my life that wouldn’t be there if he weren’t carrying, and AFAIAC, it’s unnecessary and unreasonable for him to foist that risk on me. OK, correction accepted – although I don’t agree that my version was stupid; I’d say your words lent themselves to either interpretation, and more so to mine, but you’ve clarified your flight is not due to the assumption that you will be attacked, but rather the risk that you’ll be attacked, and you’re unwilling to assume that risk. My question remains the same: why can’t someone else say, “I am mitigating the risk of being injured if someone pulls a gun out and starts shooting by carrying my own gun with which to defend myself?” In other words, you regard that calculation as one made by a “Nervous Nellie,” but you simultaneously regard _your_ decision to flee without so much as paying for your meal to be prudent. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/634 "2014-07-17T14:01:23Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > And then no one is safe until everyone is armed. I don’t care for that version of society. But you understand that society doesn’t seem to agree with you, right? That the democratic republic in which we live has explicitly permitted people to openly carry guns in the majority of states? So is it fair to say that the version of society you care for – the one in which people are not permitted to openly carry guns – is one that the majority of people in the majority of states don’t like? And isn’t it fair to say that, notwithstanding that, you wish to impose your preferred version of society on the rest of the people? Kinda like a religious fundamentalist? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/635 "2014-07-17T14:08:49Z")
Society is basically with me on this, actually. Otherwise Sonic, Target and the other businesses wouldn’t be telling the gun carriers to fuck off. So, no, not at all like a religious fundamentalist. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/636 "2014-07-17T14:58:56Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Society is basically with me on this, actually. Otherwise Sonic, Target and the other businesses wouldn’t be telling the gun carriers to fuck off. So, no, not at all like a religious fundamentalist. Why are Sonic and Target better bellwethers for “society” than the overwhelming majority of other businesses that permit weapons, added to the actual laws passed by the majority of states? That’s like Shirley Phelps saying society is with her because all the members of her church agree with her. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/637 "2014-07-19T14:39:36Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Oh please. Those are rare occurrences. They were even rarer 5 minutes before the one cited. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/638 "2014-07-21T20:16:23Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > “Depraved indifference to human life”. Look it up. You won’t be able to understand it, being afflicted by it, but do look it up. Aaaand, THIS is why you can’t participate in great debates. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/639 "2014-07-21T20:21:30Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I think **Bricker** ninja’d you a few days ago. I’ll let my response to him stand. > So all the laws that have been passed over the past couple of decades relaxing the carry laws - those were all unnecessary because they’re inherent in the Second Amendment? > > That’s a pretty sweeping claim. Well, the “right to bear arms” cases haven’t made it to the supreme court but we can’t simply read the word “bear” our of the second amendment now can we? > [@](#): > > And in general, a nation where people routinely walk the streets with lethal weapons isn’t “a nation of laws” but “every man a law unto himself.” It’s the road to barbarism, not to civilization. Why do you think that? We had that in parts in our past and it led to modern democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/640 "2014-07-21T20:27:37Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Oh, that’s simple. After Hillary replaces Scalia and Kennedy with real human beings, the Second Amendment will be restored to the meaning it had for most of America’s history. > > You know, the one where the sheriff of Dodge City could have people hand their guns over to his office when they entered town. cite. And i will lay even odds that Hillary is “caught” duck hunting in Pennsylvania by “secret web cam” or something like that to show how much she is FOR gun rights but really really against child killing military style assault weapons. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423.md?page=33)