# A Bunch of nervous Nellies who don't feel safe eating in a Sonic where they can't carry guns. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 28, 2014, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423 "2014-05-28T01:27:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/161 "2014-05-29T05:24:43Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Not sure if anyone posted this yet, but there was _another_ incident of an accidental shooting at a Walmart. > > [Walmart Shooting In Indiana Leaves Woman Injured, But Gun Owner Won't Face Charges | HuffPost Latest News](http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5401191) > > This guy wounded a woman pushing a newborn by dropping a handgun out of his pants. He apparently faces no consequences. And at the bottom of that article: > [@](#): > > It’s at least the second accidental shooting in a Walmart this month. On May 17, a shopper at a Walmart in Phoenix accidentally shot himself in the leg. So there are a least two real world examples of the dangers of allowing any yutz to carry loaded weapons in public. In either case it could have ended up killing an innocent person, rather than injuring the carrier or a bystander. That first incident came very close to resulting in the death of an infant. What really floors me is that the guy wasn’t charged with anything. I hope that woman sues the idiot for every penny he has. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/162 "2014-05-29T06:04:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But it also illustrates the value in making open carry commonplace. If most parents see open carry being exercised every day, by different people who are simply going about their business, it loses the shock value. And you think that’s a good thing? You think it’s good to desensitize people to men carrying guns? You think it’s good to suppress people’s survival instinct, their gut feeling that “this is incorrect” - “this is out of place”. You want to suppress their instinctual reaction of “I’d better get my children out of here” or “I’d better call the police.”? You may end up creating a situation where the crazies on their way to massacre school children can openly approach the school without having to be concerned about how to conceal a large weapon because the public has been desensitized to people carrying weapons. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/163 "2014-05-29T08:36:08Z")
> [@Reyemile](#): > > Because you have pointed to one incident in the history of fast food where an armed clientele might have saved lives. Compare that to the number of incidents of accidental firearms discharges, and the incidences of unarmed criminals stealing a gun and shooting with it, and the number of incidences of a black person being “mistaken” for a robber, and the number of incidences of someone losing their temper and pulling a firearm where they might have done no damage throwing a punch, and… > > Well, suffice to say, a fifth grader could tell you that the risks outweigh the benefit. Now let’s be fair. A fifth grader isn’t necessarily that well-versed in cost-benefit analysis. A _tenth-grader_ could tell Bricker the social risks gained are higher than the social risks prevented. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/164 "2014-05-29T09:47:48Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > You think I was trying to be amusing? I was not. I was very sincere. > > Anyone who carries cavalierly and doesn’t consider things like that is an idiot. My apologies. I stand corrected. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/165 "2014-05-29T09:54:10Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > I wonder if any of those asshats are survivalists? > [@silenus](#): > > Most of them, I’d wager. If I recall correctly, that McDonalds slaughter that Bricker was holding up as an example of, well, as an example of something, was carried out by a survivalist. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/166 "2014-05-29T10:30:22Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > You think I was trying to be amusing? I was not. I was very sincere. > > Anyone who carries cavalierly and doesn’t consider things like that is an idiot. FWIW, I think your rational and sober attitude is a welcome change from the “I can’t wait for some spree shooter /mugger/home invader to show up so I could blast them away in a heartbeat” crowd that seems attracted to any and all gun rights/post-tragedy threads like moths to a nuclear flamethrower. I dare hope you’re part of a silent majority, but… America, y’know ? :o ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/167 "2014-05-29T11:14:07Z")
Another yutz with a gun: [Guns, ammo seized at UC Santa Barbara student’s Isla Vista apartment](http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-ucsb-student-gun-arrest-isla-vista-20140528-story.html) > [@](#): > > Sheriff’s deputies arrested a UC Santa Barbara student this week on charges of accidentally discharging his gun, narrowly missing striking a neighbor with a bullet, sheriff’s officials said Wednesday. > > Kevin Tym, 21, admitted to deputies that he was playing with his legally owned Glock when it discharged about 2:30 p.m. Tuesday, shooting through his neighbor’s wall in the 6500 block of Pardall Road, the Santa Barbara County Sheriff’s Office said in a statement. > … > Tym, an Isla Vista resident, had seven firearms, 1,000 rounds of ammunition and high-capacity assault rifle magazines, sheriff’s officials said. I realize that this incident isn’t about open or closed carry, but it’s another example of somebody who shouldn’t be around guns. Would you want to live in an apartment next to this guy? How the hell do we evaluate whether someone is responsible, or an idiot like this? Why did this guy need seven firearms? Was he afraid of being attacked by seven muggers? Yes, I know that some people like to collect guns, that it’s a hobby. What if someone enjoys hand grenades? I don’t support banning the ownership of any and all guns, but idiots like this give me pause. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/168 "2014-05-29T11:34:16Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > My apologies. I stand corrected. Hey, don’t worry about it. > [@Kobal2](#): > > FWIW, I think your rational and sober attitude is a welcome change from the “I can’t wait for some spree shooter /mugger/home invader to show up so I could blast them away in a heartbeat” crowd that seems attracted to any and all gun rights/post-tragedy threads like moths to a nuclear flamethrower. > I dare hope you’re part of a silent majority, but… America, y’know ? :o We’re out there. And we vote. And my wife is more sensible than I am. But I didn’t have to tell you that, did I? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/169 "2014-05-29T11:41:38Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > And my wife is more sensible than I am. But I didn’t have to tell you that, did I? 😃 There does appear to be a statistically significant pattern going on there 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/170 "2014-05-29T13:15:56Z")
> [@Bouncer](#): > > Recommend you check the video in the OP. At least one person is cradling their long gun in their arms as a soldier might while out on patrol (he’s wearing a sleeveless t-shirt and a baseball hat). In the still photo at the end, at least two individuals have hands on pistol grips (fingers outside the trigger guard but resting along the edge of the guard) while cradling the barrel in their other arm. I don’t know if that rises to the level of brandishing, but it’s definitely more than just having them slung. Which is the point. > > In addition quite a few of them have front three-point slings (combat harness) and are carrying the weapons low. > > Look at the video and tell me if you’d feel comfortable with your child around people you don’t know behaving that way. I take my child to the shooting range on a monthly basis. He is around people who are not only carrying guns, but actually firing them! And I bring him there. And I don’t usually know any of those people. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/171 "2014-05-29T13:21:56Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > I include myself here. I am not in law enforcement. I have had some training, but if a threat develops, I have a healthy fear of responding inappropriately. And if I were to draw my weapon and injure or kill an innocent bystander, by gosh that would be a true tragedy. > > So, if I am carrying, yes my wife and I are much safer, but I also have a healthy fear of the possible negative consequences. Of course. I have said on this very board, more than once, that I have loaded handguns at home in case of a home invasion…and if I heard an intruder downstairs stealing my stuff, I’d get my child, lock all of us in the bedroom, call 911, and wait for the police to arrive. Because I don’t own any property that’s worth killing someone over. I’d rather pay the insurance deductible than kill a human being. I don’t think there EXISTS any ordinary personal property worth killing over. I can always buy a new flat screen TV. But if that intruder were to come up the stairs and threaten the safety of my family, I would be able to use deadly force to protect their lives, and my own. I’m sure I’d have nightmares about having done so for the rest of my life. But I would do it, because the health and safety of my family does justify killing an intruder who threatens that health or safety. ---
**Author:** ![drew870mitchell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drew870mitchell/32/3946_2.png) [@drew870mitchell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drew870mitchell)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/172 "2014-05-29T13:27:45Z")
> [@andros](#): > > How else would you describe it? Maybe “normalization?” > . Maybe people who don’t want to be around guns 24/7 don’t need “therapy.”:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/173 "2014-05-29T14:40:08Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > And you think that’s a good thing? You think it’s good to desensitize people to men carrying guns? You think it’s good to suppress people’s survival instinct, their gut feeling that “this is incorrect” - “this is out of place”. You want to suppress their instinctual reaction of “I’d better get my children out of here” or “I’d better call the police.”? Yes. We do it already for police. If someone is engaging in a legal activity it should not elicit panicked behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/174 "2014-05-29T14:56:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I agree with the latter claim. If the law permits you to open carry, I say you have every right to open carry, and should, because if enough people do it it will become an unremarkable sight. But if the person in charge of the establishment asks you not to, that’s their right, and you ought to comply. No you should not. I do not want to live in Somilia or the wild wild west. This is where modern society is heading. NOT carrying around guns. Just because something is an unremarkable sight does not make it a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/175 "2014-05-29T15:01:32Z")
> [@Bouncer](#): > > Recommend you check the video in the OP. At least one person is cradling their long gun in their arms as a soldier might while out on patrol (he’s wearing a sleeveless t-shirt and a baseball hat). In the still photo at the end, at least two individuals have hands on pistol grips (fingers outside the trigger guard but resting along the edge of the guard) while cradling the barrel in their other arm. I don’t know if that rises to the level of brandishing, but it’s definitely more than just having them slung. Which is the point. > > In addition quite a few of them have front three-point slings (combat harness) and are carrying the weapons low. > > Look at the video and tell me if you’d feel comfortable with your child around people you don’t know behaving that way. > > Regards, > -Bouncer- > [@Bricker](#): > > I take my child to the shooting range on a monthly basis. He is around people who are not only carrying guns, but actually firing them! > > And I bring him there. > > And I don’t usually know any of those people. Aside from Bricker’s 1984 McDonalds example and the like, family restaurants are not shooting ranges. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/176 "2014-05-29T15:27:01Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Yes. > > We do it already for police. If someone is engaging in a legal activity it should not elicit panicked behavior. The point is that it should not be a legal activity. Because when we make it legal (for no good reason that I can discern) then it becomes difficult to tell if someone openly carrying firearms is to be trusted or not. If it’s illegal, then we can have them arrested. Causing people with guns to stand out, be noticed, and be regarded with suspicion, IMHO, will likely save more lives than not. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/177 "2014-05-29T15:41:17Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > The point is that it should not be a legal activity. Because when we make it legal (for no good reason that I can discern) then it becomes difficult to tell if someone openly carrying firearms is to be trusted or not. If it’s illegal, then we can have them arrested. Causing people with guns to stand out, be noticed, and be regarded with suspicion, IMHO, will likely save more lives than not. Then you should actually be happy that these yahoos are acting the way they are. I’m sure it provides support to make the practice illegal. I personally think concealed is the way to go, but I can see some benefit to open carry being legal. If you are concealed, and you accidentally print or your firearm becomes visible for any reason, I don’t want that to be a crime. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/178 "2014-05-29T15:43:51Z")
I don’t even really have a problem with open-carry. I have a problem with these idiots and others like them “making a point” and carrying around rifles all over the place. I don’t care what they say, there’s more going on here than “making a point”. I still make a distinction between “responsible gun-owner” and “stupid rightwing asshole trying to intimidate because he’s afraid of shadows”. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/179 "2014-05-29T15:50:52Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > “Exposure therapy”. Wow. That’s not patronizing. :dubious: There is some notion that much of the irrational fear surrounding guns are the result of a lack of exposure. > [@](#): > > Allowing anyone to conceal carry seems questionable to me. I’m really not convinced that the rewards outweigh the risks. And I’m not talking about just the risks to the carrier, presumably he or she is an adult and therefore can make those decisions. I’m talking about the risks to the people around them, which are not non-existent. I think there is some evidence that CCW holders are more law abiding than the general population. > [@](#): > > But I just don’t see the value of openly carrying, especially like these fools are doing it. What’s gained by this? Well, the way these guys are doing it? Yeah, not much to be gained. > [@kambuckta](#): > > For all the talk about US citizens carrying arms to ‘prevent’ crimes, can somebody direct me to some stats that can show how many otherwise law-abiding citizens have prevented **any** crime by showing a gun? > **[Defensive gun use](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_gun_use)** > > Defensive gun use (DGU) is the use or presentation of a firearm for self-defense, defense of others or, in some cases, protecting property. The frequency of incidents involving DGU and their effectiveness in providing safety and reducing crime are controversial issues in gun politics and criminology, chiefly in the United States.: 64  Different authors and studies employ different criteria for what constitutes a defensive gun use which leads to controversy in comparing statistical results. Per Es... > [@running\_coach](#): > > Just like the vast majority of police officers, you may never need to pull that gun in defense but it’s there if needed. They pull their gun frequently, they usually don’t fire their gun. > [@Sinaptics](#): > > I don’t think it does, though. Threat assessment is an activity humans do both consciously and sub-consciously. Just walking down the street, your mind is constantly profiling the other pedestrians and triangulating vehicle trajectories in an attempt to detect potential danger. I don’t think you could get people to the point where an armed person doesn’t raise their threat value. Sure, a guy with a knife on his belt raises the threat assessment. People feel entirely comfortable walking along a street where cars are zooming along at 45 mph but flip their lid if they see someone carrying a rifle on their back. There is some profiling going on there as you say and the profiling is based on myths and the reaction might be overblown. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > We are actually being told by **Damuri** , who claims to represent an entire movement, that the regular occurrence of gun murders in our society is something to be accepted as \*normal \*- that even to suggest that it’s a problem that needs to be addressed is a disorder requiring “therapy”. > > There are no sufficient words. :rolleyes: Where do I say that? > [@Muffin](#): > > Aside from Bricker’s 1984 McDonalds example and the like, family restaurants are not shooting ranges. There is a time and place to try to make the point they MAY have been trying to make and that was not the time or place. But that doesn’t mean that this point shouldn’t be made. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423/180 "2014-05-29T15:55:51Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > There is a time and place to try to make the point they MAY have been trying to make and that was not the time or place. Ergo they have poor judgement. Guns and poor judgment make for bad bedfellows. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-bunch-of-nervous-nellies-who-dont-feel-safe-eating-in-a-sonic-where-they-cant-carry-guns/689423.md?page=10)