# A Casablanca Question **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 28, 2002, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-casablanca-question/100604 "2002-03-28T19:04:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2002, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-casablanca-question/100604/1 "2002-03-28T19:04:03Z")
I watched **Casablanca** again the other night. For some reason, I never saw this until I got to college, but then I fell in love with the sappy melodrama. So did everyone else, apparently. Every city I’ve lived in has had at least one bar named “Greenstreet’s” or “The Green Parrot” or “Casablanca” or “Rick’s”. My question is this – near the beginning Ugarti (Peter Lorre) talks to Rick in private, telling him about the two Letters of Transit he has (stolen from two German couriers) – “Two Letter of Transit, Rick, signed by General de Gaulle himself. Cannot be rescinded. Not even questioned. Tonight I’ll sell those letters for more money than you’ve ever dreamed of.” So why would the Vichy government of Casablanca care at all about letters signed by the leader of the Free French forces? Why would they honor them at all? Why wouldn’t they justy tear them up? What gives them such all-round respectability? Or is this just a plot point that one is supposed to accept as a “given”, with de Gaulle’s name giving it a veneer of respectability? ---
**Author:** ![Tretiak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a88e57/32.png) [@Tretiak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tretiak)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2002, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-casablanca-question/100604/2 "2002-03-28T19:15:29Z")
There really is no rationale expalantion. The letters are just a MacGuffin anyway, given a hint of authenticiy as you alluded to. So just ignore the inconsistency and enjoy the finest movie ever made. ---
**Author:** ![DPWhite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d26b3c/32.png) [@DPWhite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPWhite)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2002, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-casablanca-question/100604/3 "2002-03-28T19:30:30Z")
I’ve seen it 29 times. My all time favorite movie. No, the signed by General De Galle thing makes no sense at all. Alas. Oh, and its the Blue Parrot. Of all the gin joints in all the world, why did she have to walk into mine? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2002, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-casablanca-question/100604/4 "2002-03-28T19:41:59Z")
From the IMDB: > [@](#): > > Incorrectly regarded as goofs: It sounds like Ugarte says that the letters of transit are signed by “General de Gaulle,” leading to confusion as de Gaulle was on the other side, with the Free French, at the time. Ugarte (Peter Lorre) actually says “General Weygand,” but his accent makes it difficult to understand. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2002, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-casablanca-question/100604/5 "2002-03-28T19:42:12Z")
My favorite film of all time… I have always assumed that despite the German presence in Casablanca, it was still officially a free (non-aligned) country with heavy-duty French loyalties - thus DeGaulle’s signature would have been the equivalent of a free pass even if he were dead. I might be wrong, but I will watch more closely the next 50 times I watch the film to see if there are any other clues. ---
**Author:** ![Threadkiller](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@Threadkiller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Threadkiller)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2002, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-casablanca-question/100604/6 "2002-03-28T19:50:30Z")
Also from the IMdB [Goofs for Casablanca](http://us.imdb.com/Goofs?0034583): > [@](#): > > Plot holes: There never was such a thing as a letter of transit. ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2002, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-casablanca-question/100604/7 "2002-03-28T20:12:37Z")
[Mr Cranky’s take on it](http://www.mrcranky.com/movies/casablanca.html) > [@](#): > > The funniest thing about “Casablanca” is the premise that the letters of transit that Rick holds would actually get Ilsa and her underground leader husband, Victor (Paul Henreid) out of Morocco. Those Nazis may not be squeamish when it comes to killing Jews, but try to get them to rip up a couple of letters of transit at the border and apparently they develop ethics. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2002, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-casablanca-question/100604/8 "2002-03-28T20:48:55Z")
Ebert discusses this very issue at length in his book Questions for the Movie Answer Man. The IMDb has it right - he is really saying “General Weygand” but with his accent, you almost have to be thinking that to hear him say it. What I always couldn’t believe was how Capt. Renault’s men didn’t search the piano! Talk about incompetent… ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2002, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-casablanca-question/100604/9 "2002-03-28T21:01:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DMark \* > \*\*My favorite film of all time… > I have always assumed that despite the German presence in Casablanca, it was still officially a free (non-aligned) country with heavy-duty French loyalties - thus DeGaulle’s signature would have been the equivalent of a free pass even if he were dead. > I might be wrong, but I will watch more closely the next 50 times I watch the film to see if there are any other clues. \*\* It was a French colony. The French troops therein were taking their orders not from the conquered French government (or the Resistance) but “free France,” the Vichy region which had capitulated to the Nazis and became Germany’s ally. That’s why Major Strasser has power in Casablanca – because the Germans run the Axis and Free France is a subordinate Axis state, but it’s also why he makes suggestions, he doesn’t give orders – he’s the local voice of the Axis, but in Morocco, he’s got no authority. (It’s also why Claude Raines drops the bottle of Vichy water at the end – he’s rejecting the collaborators of Free France to join, at least idealogically, the Resistance.) –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![DAVEW0071](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19b73/32.png) [@DAVEW0071](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DAVEW0071)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2002, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-casablanca-question/100604/10 "2002-03-28T22:42:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Threadkiller \* > \*\*Also from the IMdB [Goofs for Casablanca](http://us.imdb.com/Goofs?0034583): > \*\* > [@](#): > > Plot holes: There never was such a thing as a letter of transit. So then, it doesn’t matter if De Gaulle _did_ sign them, does it? ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2002, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-casablanca-question/100604/11 "2002-03-28T23:37:29Z")
I always felt the letters were needed at the destination, if you reached Lisbon without proper documentation you would be deported back to Casablanca. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2002, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-casablanca-question/100604/12 "2002-03-29T01:35:01Z")
> [@](#): > > Plot holes: There never was such a thing as a letter of transit. Calling this a plot hole is about as silly as pointing out there was never a Rick’s in Casablanca, or that the police chief at the time wasn’t named Louis Renauld. This is fiction, folks. Look up the word. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2002, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-casablanca-question/100604/13 "2002-03-29T04:02:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Ebert discusses this very issue at length in his book Questions for the Movie Answer Man. The IMDb has it right - he is really saying “General Weygand” but with his accent, you almost have to be thinking that to hear him say it. > > What I always couldn’t believe was how Capt. Renault’s men didn’t search the piano! Talk about incompetent… I’ll agree with you about the incompetant search. That’s always bugged me somewhat, but I assumed it was the film-maer’s way of saying that this wasn’t an important issue – this film is a romantic melodrama, not a uzzle film about hiding documents. But that issue o the name … ‘ll listen closer next time, but I’d _swear_ hat Lorre is saying “de Gaulle”. Claiming that it’s really “Weygand” and Lorre’s accent makes it sound wrong just doesn’t sound right to me. It’ like that **Bloom County** strip where they pass off an obvious insult as a “typo”. As a guess, even if the script sas “Weygand”, maybe Lorre flubbed the line, saying “de Gaulle” instead (Hell, it was the middle of the war. _I’d_ have de Gaulle on my mind.), and they didn’t thin it was orth reshooting. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2002, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-casablanca-question/100604/14 "2002-03-29T05:19:00Z")
> [@](#): > > It was a French colony. The French troops therein were taking their orders not from the conquered French government (or the Resistance) but “free France,” the Vichy region which had capitulated to the Nazis and became Germany’s ally. That’s why Major Strasser has power in Casablanca – because the Germans run the Axis and Free France is a subordinate Axis state, but it’s also why he makes suggestions, he doesn’t give orders – he’s the local voice of the Axis, but in Morocco, he’s got no authority. (It’s also why Claude Raines drops the bottle of Vichy water at the end – he’s rejecting the collaborators of Free France to join, at least idealogically, the Resistance.) Not quite. What happened was the Germans invaded France in 1940 and the French government surrendered. One of the terms of this surrender was that the Germans occupied approximately half of France (including Paris). The French government, headed by Petain and Lavalle, moved the capital to Vichy, a small city in southern France. (General Weygand was a high ranking military leader for Vichy.) Meanwhile Charles de Gaulle, the Minister of Defense, refused to accept France’s defeat and flew to London where he organized the Free French movement. So in 1941, the time when _Casablanca_ was set, you in effect had three different Frances. There was occupied France, ruled from Berlin (with a local German military headquarters in Paris). There was “Vichy” France, which was recognized by most nations (including the United States) as the “real” France; Vichy was nominally independant although in practice was subordinate to German wishes. And there was Free France, which at its beginning consisted of a few offices in London. Vichy was allowed to maintain control of its colonies, which included Morocco. So Renault was nominally the representative of an independant nation, but a nation which could not afford to defy Germany. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2002, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-casablanca-question/100604/15 "2002-03-29T06:18:48Z")
I swear this is a repeat of a thread from two years back…so I’ll repeat my contribution: I have before me a copy of “Casablanca–Script and Legend” by Howard Koch (screenwriter, along with Julius and Philip Epstein). The line in question, according to the book, is “letters of transit signed by General de Gaulle [Marshal Weygand]. Cannot be rescinded…” There’s no explanation of what the brackets signify. In his introduction, Koch refers to the letters of transit as signed by Marshal Weygand. So I would interpret all this as meaning the authors wrote “Weygand”, and Peter Lorre said “De Gaulle”. ---
**Author:** ![Tretiak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a88e57/32.png) [@Tretiak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tretiak)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2002, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-casablanca-question/100604/16 "2002-03-29T08:01:28Z")
The script I have says Weygand, but I lent out my Casablanca DVD so I couldn’t check the actual movie. I wonder what the sub-titles say. ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2002, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-casablanca-question/100604/17 "2002-03-29T14:33:12Z")
Unless someone beats me to it, I’ll check the subtitles on my DVD tonight and relay my results. Sadly, I have neither the DVD nor a player here at work. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2002, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-casablanca-question/100604/18 "2002-03-29T15:07:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Little Nemo \* > \*\* > > Charles de Gaulle, the Minister of Defense, refused to accept France’s defeat and flew to London where he organized the Free French movement. > > And there was Free France, which at its beginning consisted of a few offices in London. > > \*\* Didn’t the Allies keep de Gaulle fixed up and out of the way with women and booze so that the guy running Free France would play ball with them? Or was it the other way around, another guy on ice to keep de Gaulle in line? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2002, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-casablanca-question/100604/19 "2002-03-29T19:38:13Z")
It’s quite clear that Lorre is saying “Weygand,” and using the pronunciation Vay-GONE. It doesn’t sound a thing like De Gaulle and the only reason why people think it might be is because they don’t know who Weygand was. It’s a classic hobson-jobson, where people think an unfamiliar word is a familiar one. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2002, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-casablanca-question/100604/20 "2002-03-29T21:21:56Z")
If it’s “quite clear”, this thread wouldn’t exist. 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-casablanca-question/100604.md?page=2)