# a chain made of most known metals **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 29, 2020, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chain-made-of-most-known-metals/854664 "2020-05-29T13:13:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jonpluc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/fbc32d/32.png) [@jonpluc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonpluc)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chain-made-of-most-known-metals/854664/1 "2020-05-29T13:13:37Z")
i was reading Game of Thrones and one of Maesters owned a metal neckchain made with links of every known metal in the realm. I thought to myself, well thats cool, i wonder if they make that in real life and if you could buy one. i found nothing on the internet and i wondered if it didnt exist for a practical reason (lack of strength or weird wear between the links) or if this is something that could be done in real life and if so why isnt it for sale somewhere? PS i get some metals are liquid at room temp and there are other equally unviable metals such as ones that would react to the water on your neck, radioactivity etc but you could give a pretty good shot at most of the list. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chain-made-of-most-known-metals/854664/2 "2020-05-29T13:16:47Z")
Plutonium, uranium, etc. would be a very good reason not to make such a thing. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chain-made-of-most-known-metals/854664/3 "2020-05-29T13:17:06Z")
No reason why it couldn’t be done, but note that some metals are poisonous (Osmium), some are pyrophoric (Potassium and Sodium), and some are radioactive (Radium). And of course, some are liquid (Mercury). But, you could certainly use all the common ones - Iron, Copper, Silver, Gold, Titanium, Lead, Tungsten, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chain-made-of-most-known-metals/854664/4 "2020-05-29T13:29:12Z")
Do you want each link to be a different pure metal? Then you’re going to have some trouble with some of the softer ones falling apart. On the other hand, if you’re willing to accept metals present in alloys, or a core of one metal plated with another, it’ll get much easier. And George R. R. Martin wasn’t the first to come up with this idea. In Tolkien’s works, the chain that bound Melkor (the ultimate evil in his world) was made of a metal formed from copper, silver, gold, iron, lead, and tin. ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chain-made-of-most-known-metals/854664/5 "2020-05-29T13:32:42Z")
Many people busy themselves with collecting examples of every element in the periodic table. Well, every one that’s safe, or not too expensive. or as you said, not a liquid. At any rate, using the periodic table, every element on the left (there’s a jagged line of metaloids, which you may want to make links from, 'cause why not?), is defined chemically as a “metal” and while there are a lot of them, you can easily see the list. [Element collecting - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Element_collecting) ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chain-made-of-most-known-metals/854664/6 "2020-05-29T13:54:57Z")
Yeah, it’s the soft and liquid metals that really screw this idea up. When I was a kid, I thought it would be neat to have a cast figure of DC’s Metal Men in each of their respective metals…but Mercury? ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chain-made-of-most-known-metals/854664/7 "2020-05-29T14:02:16Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And George R. R. Martin wasn’t the first to come up with this idea. In Tolkien’s works, the chain that bound Melkor (the ultimate evil in his world) was made of a metal formed from copper, silver, gold, iron, lead, and tin. Given that George R. R. Martin is a huge Tolkien fan, he probably got the idea from Tolkien in the first place, whether consciously or not. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chain-made-of-most-known-metals/854664/8 "2020-05-29T14:35:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And George R. R. Martin wasn’t the first to come up with this idea. In Tolkien’s works, the chain that bound Melkor (the ultimate evil in his world) was made of a metal formed from copper, silver, gold, iron, lead, and tin. Although to be fair, Tolkien’s chain _Angainor_ was made of _tilkal_, an alloy of the six metals, not a series of links each made of a different metal, so it’s not quite the same idea. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chain-made-of-most-known-metals/854664/9 "2020-05-29T15:02:20Z")
To be more precise, _tilkal_ was made from the other six metals, but in some unspecified way that was not an alloy, and then all seven were alloyed together to make the chain. But yes, the material of the chain was mostly homogenous (except for the shackles themselves, which were different somehow), not separated out into links of distinct metals. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chain-made-of-most-known-metals/854664/10 "2020-05-29T15:11:51Z")
I’d love to see a chain made with links of the alkali metals. It’s true that they’re pyrophoric, as noted above, but they quickly develop an oxide coating\* that preserves them from bursting into flame unless you dunk them in water. The real problem is that they have no strength to speak of. You can cut sodium, lithium, and potassium with a butter knife. Unless the link is pretty thick you could bend and break it with your bare hands (although you’d better wear gloves – that’s a great way to get burns). And, of course, mercury is liquid at room temperature (and toxic, to boot). You’d probably want your chain-of-many-metals to be well chilled. - alkali metals will eagerly react with any stray moisture in the air, forming the hydroxide. The reverse reaction virtually doesn’t happen. I once put some lithium metal in a tightly capped jar with dessicant to keep it dry, but the lithium protected the dessicant from water by reacting with all the water present in the jar and forming a crisp of lithium hydroxide. I suspect it actually drew water from the dessicant. This is why you usually find lumps of alkali metal either vacuum sealed in glass ampoules, or else stored under mineral oil. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chain-made-of-most-known-metals/854664/11 "2020-05-29T16:11:08Z")
We might compare what is going on on [this page](http://www.elementsales.com/ecoins.htm) offering elemental coins. Some of them are in glass or resin capsules. Carbon, boron, and phosphorus appear to be mixed into a binder rather than pure. I suppose you could do similar things with many of those elements to produce a chain, possibly with additional difficulty (must every element form a topologically complete link? Etc.) ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chain-made-of-most-known-metals/854664/12 "2020-05-29T16:19:21Z")
How about if we melted all the metals, mixed them together into one big alloy, and made the chain from that? Is there anything theoretically impossible about a mix of lithium and uranium, plus everything between the two? Would that help stabilize the more unstable elements? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chain-made-of-most-known-metals/854664/13 "2020-05-29T16:24:02Z")
Strength, reactivity, and melting point issues could all be avoided, if we allow a link made of a shell of some strong material with a core of the desired element. In some cases, this would even suffice for the radioactive elements (it doesn’t take much of a metal shield to stop alpha and beta particles). ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chain-made-of-most-known-metals/854664/14 "2020-05-29T16:26:45Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > … Tolkien’s chain _Angainor_ was made of _tilkal_, an alloy of the six metals … I wonder if Tolkien borrowed this idea from India, where [an alloy, named Ashtadhatu, of the eight most ancient metals in equal proportions is used for religious icons](https://www.amazon.com/IndianStore4All-Ashtadhatu-Mercury-Astrological-Benefits/dp/B07TYCT1W2). (Antimony is sometimes substituted for mercury in this alloy.) ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chain-made-of-most-known-metals/854664/15 "2020-05-29T16:26:55Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Plutonium, uranium, etc. would be a very good reason not to make such a thing. Plutonium does not exist in nature terrestrially except trace quantities from neutron absorption by [SUP]238[/SUP]U. Most terrestrial uranium is also [SUP]238[/SUP] which is toxic and carcinogenic if inhaled or ingested but as a solid ingot is only weakly radioactive. A better reason not to make it, aside from the structural issues listed above, is that differences in electronegativity of different elements will result in galvanic corrosion, so you’ve have to isolate different links from one another. > [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > Given that George R. R. Martin is a huge Tolkien fan, he probably got the idea from Tolkien in the first place, whether consciously or not. George R. R. Martin has basically riffed on Tolkein, Edward Gibbon, Thomas Mallory, and countless other authors to synthesize the world of Game of Thrones. His novels and stories are entertaining but very little of it could be described in any way as original mythology. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chain-made-of-most-known-metals/854664/16 "2020-05-29T16:44:18Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I wonder if Tolkien borrowed this idea from India, where [an alloy, named Ashtadhatu, of the eight most ancient metals in equal proportions is used for religious icons](https://www.amazon.com/IndianStore4All-Ashtadhatu-Mercury-Astrological-Benefits/dp/B07TYCT1W2). (Antimony is sometimes substituted for mercury in this alloy.) Interesting, that’s possible. I believe Tolkien only mentioned tilkal once, in the very earliest version of the story of the Chaining of Melko(r), written when he was 25 years old. The composition of Angainor as a magic alloy of various metals is not mentioned in any of the numerous later versions of the story. (And the name “tilkal” is an acronym of the Elvish names of the six metals, a very unusual and I think unique way for Tolkien to create a name.) This is the only mention of it from that first story: > [@Tolkien](#): > > Behold, Aule now gathered six metals, copper, silver, tin, lead, iron, and gold, and taking a portion of each made with his magic a seventh which he named therefore _tilkal_, and this had all the properties of the six and many of its own. Its colour was bright green or red in varying lights and it could not be broken, and Aule alone could forge it. Thereafter he forged a mighty chain, making it of all seven metals welded with spells to a substance of uttermost hardness and brightness and smoothness, but of _tilkal_ he had not sufficient to add more than a little to each link. Nonetheless he made two manacles of tilkal only and four fetters likewise. ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chain-made-of-most-known-metals/854664/17 "2020-05-29T17:45:20Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Strength, reactivity, and melting point issues could all be avoided, if we allow a link made of a shell of some strong material with a core of the desired element. In some cases, this would even suffice for the radioactive elements (it doesn’t take much of a metal shield to stop alpha and beta particles). You have to be careful doing this, because even if you take care to make it under vacuum with all air / moisture removed from the cavity, you have problems with differential thermal expansion. ---
**Author:** ![Reno\_Nevada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Reno\_Nevada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reno_Nevada)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chain-made-of-most-known-metals/854664/18 "2020-05-29T19:22:00Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I wonder if Tolkien borrowed this idea from India, where [an alloy, named Ashtadhatu, of the eight most ancient metals in equal proportions is used for religious icons](https://www.amazon.com/IndianStore4All-Ashtadhatu-Mercury-Astrological-Benefits/dp/B07TYCT1W2). (Antimony is sometimes substituted for mercury in this alloy.) Tolkein was much more likely to be riffing on the chain that was used to bind Fenris Wolf, which was made of the footfalls of a cat, the beard of a woman, the roots of a mountain, the sinews of a bear, the breath of a fish, and the spittle of a bird. Of course, you need to get the dwarves to forge them into a chain for you. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chain-made-of-most-known-metals/854664/19 "2020-05-29T19:38:35Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > … it would be neat to have a cast figure of DC’s Metal Men in each of their respective metals…but Mercury? He’d live in a freezer kept at -40 (F or C, according to his preference). ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chain-made-of-most-known-metals/854664/20 "2020-05-30T10:03:06Z")
> [@Arkcon](#): > > Many people busy themselves with collecting examples of every element in the periodic table. Well, every one that’s safe, or not too expensive. or as you said, not a liquid. At any rate, using the periodic table, every element on the left (there’s a jagged line of metaloids, which you may want to make links from, 'cause why not?), is defined chemically as a “metal” and while there are a lot of them, you can easily see the list. [Element collecting - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Element_collecting) xkcd’s Randall Munroe has covered the question what would happen if you had a “periodic wall of elements” with every element positioned according to its place in the periodic table ([pdf link](https://englishatlc.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/randall-munroe-periodic-wall-of-elements.pdf)). The conclusion was that it wouldn’t be a good thing to have. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chain-made-of-most-known-metals/854664.md?page=2)