# A challenge to any Christian: before condemning me to hell, go get waterboarded **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 23, 2011, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935 "2011-05-23T19:03:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/21 "2011-05-23T20:05:57Z")
Waterboarding? Fucking please. What are you a pussy? I shove a 2x4 full of nails up my ass everyday just for funsies. If you consider waterboarding torture then you my sissy little friend should probably stay inside the rest of your life as sometimes the sun is shining and we wouldn’t want you to get all tortured. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/22 "2011-05-23T20:06:17Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > This is a public challenge to all the Born Again Atheists ™ out there to stop being total douchebags. You do not have all the fucking answers. Grow the fuck up. What’s your excuse? 😃 No one has the answers. The trouble is, one side asserts that they do. That said, the OP isn’t very good. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/23 "2011-05-23T20:10:59Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > Christians may say that you are going to Hell, but they don’t have the authority to actually send you there. This is why I carry a supply of Get Out of Hell Free cards. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![LilyoftheField](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@LilyoftheField](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilyoftheField)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/24 "2011-05-23T20:12:02Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > This is a public challenge to all the Born Again Atheists ™ out there to stop being total douchebags. You do not have all the fucking answers. Grow the fuck up. Well, to be fair, isn’t is usually the deists who believe that they have all the answers? God did it. The end. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/25 "2011-05-23T20:15:34Z")
I’m a Christian myself, and I don’t believe in hell, at the very least nothing like the one the OP seems to think all Christians do. In fact, of all the Christians I know that do believe in hell, I don’t think I know one that believes in a Dante’s Inferno type hell like that. Personally, I don’t go around condemning people because, first, I can’t, and second, I know what I believe and I try to hold as close to it as I can, but it’s not my place to force those beliefs on others. Sometimes I’ll share my beliefs if I think it’s absolutely pertinent to the conversation, like in this thread for instance, or if I’m explicitly asked. Regardless, blaming the religion for the behavior of the people, when it’s not limited to just religious topics is sort of silly. I see people do this not only within a religious context (both theists and atheist), but in other contexts too, particularly politics, where those who disagree are either cold-hearted assholes or bleeding-hearted unintelligent sheep, either of which wants to destroy the country, or in music, where someone who has a different taste is accused of having no taste at all. In short, it’s a lack of empathy, closed-mindedness, and a common desire to demonize opponents. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/26 "2011-05-23T20:16:53Z")
> [@LilyoftheField](#): > > Well, to be fair, isn’t is usually the deists who believe that they have all the answers? God did it. The end. What I was going to say. Don’t know many atheists who resort to supernatural mysticism to explain things they don’t have the answers to. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/27 "2011-05-23T20:41:48Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > What I was going to say. Don’t know many atheists who resort to supernatural mysticism to explain things they don’t have the answers to. Indeed. Atheists seldom claim to have _all_ the answers, but the answers they do claim to have are generally useful. For what they don’t have answers to, they don’t assume they can fill in the blanks with whatever makes them feel good. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/28 "2011-05-23T21:09:43Z")
> [@bup](#): > > I like the OP’s lack of nuance. You can’t approve of a negative. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/29 "2011-05-23T21:10:55Z")
> [@Max\_the\_Immortal](#): > > For what they don’t have answers to, they don’t assume they can fill in the blanks with whatever makes them feel good. On this very board, the Born Again Atheist ™ crowd frequently asserts that there is no god. They do not know this for certain, in fact, it is not possible for them to know this for certain. The only possible way to answer that question is to die, and experience whatever death is for oneself. I happen to be an atheist…but I realize I could be wrong. So could you. ---
**Author:** ![Suil\_Dubh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85f322/32.png) [@Suil\_Dubh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suil_Dubh)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/30 "2011-05-23T21:17:16Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > No, he has a point. Waterboarding is an ice cream cone in a breezy seaside hammock compared to _fireboarding_. _golf clap_ ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/31 "2011-05-23T21:18:39Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > On this very board, the Born Again Atheist ™ crowd frequently asserts that there is no god. They do not know this for certain, in fact, it is not possible for them to know this for certain. The only possible way to answer that question is to die, and experience whatever death is for oneself. > > I happen to be an atheist…but I realize I could be wrong. So could you. You are evidence that atheists can be pretty silly too. Typically an atheists says there is no God like you would say there are no vampires. Do you know for a fact that vampires don’t exist? There is zero evidence for a God, so assuming it doesn’t exist is hardly a stretch. Also, death will tell you nothing, theists will switch off and never know how utterly they wasted their lives. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/32 "2011-05-23T21:34:16Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > Christians may say that you are going to Hell, but they don’t have the authority to actually send you there. Yes, at best they’re just junior modding. Which is bad, because God doesn’t give out warnings, just smitings. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/33 "2011-05-23T21:36:36Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > On this very board, the Born Again Atheist ™ crowd frequently asserts that there is no god. They do not know this for certain, in fact, it is not possible for them to know this for certain. The only possible way to answer that question is to die, and experience whatever death is for oneself. > . There could be a god an no afterlife. There could be an afterlife and no god. So, experiencing death may not give us the answers either. [And, what **Lobohan** said about vampires.] ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/34 "2011-05-23T21:45:01Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > This is why I carry a supply of Get Out of Hell Free cards. 😉 You could actually post this, and not post a [link](http://www.getoutofhellfree.com/)? Better keep one handy, you’re gonna need it! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Cort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/77aa72/32.png) [@Cort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cort)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/35 "2011-05-23T21:56:26Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > You’re right. That will surely convince them of the error of their ways. The OP has finally hit upon the key to undermining Christian beliefs. Many have tried and failed, but they didn’t have the brilliant insight of the OP. > > True genius! I can only restate the OP. Hell, as commonly defined by millions upon millions of American Evangelical Christians, is a place of eternal torment. That this idea is utterly incompatible with the notion of a loving God doesn’t seem to trouble them. Assuming they are not sociopaths, there is only one explanation for this. They simply haven’t taken the trouble to expend any intellectual energy on what eternal torment might actually _feel_ like, in which case a stint on the waterboard may disabuse them of their naivete. The OP makes a good point in a powerful fashion. I think you are reacting to the stridency of his language more than the underlying logic of his argument, which is consistent with the beliefs of his targets. It’s a common response from those who operate under the mistaken premise that a winning argument must necessarily be deft and riven with subtle nuance, when instead it need only be marginally less barbaric and cretinous than the savage bronze aged nonsense against which it is deployed. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/36 "2011-05-23T21:56:31Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Yes, at best they’re just junior modding. Which is bad, because God doesn’t give out warnings, just smitings. I read your post as if you said > [@](#): > > at best they’re just junior godding ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/37 "2011-05-23T22:00:24Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > Not to mention - it’s not the Christians who are condemning people to Hell. It’s not their decision. It’s God’s - he’s the only judge. > > Christians may say that you are going to Hell, but they don’t have the authority to actually send you there. This is a theological question and I believe a case could be made for a follower of Jesus to actually do the above. We are given the ability to pray in Jesus’ Name, meaning with the exact same authority as Jesus. Demons are commonly sent ‘to the pit’ or to Hell as part of deliverance ‘in Jesus’ name (though notably Jesus never sent a demon there in the Gospels). Also while God is the judge, He does use us, as Paul was used to hand over some people to Satan (though for purification). I would say if it’s possible for God to send people to Hell, it is also power that MUST be given to people who are praying in Jesus’ name, as that IS God, though the circumstances would only be those who God has judged to be going to hell already and just using the person as His messenger. This does not apply to those people screaming to non-believers that they are going to hell - never trust a demon 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/38 "2011-05-23T22:01:36Z")
I am a Christian and I do not condemn you to hell. I am also willing to be waterboarded in the style of slumming American news people who can have it stopped at any time. Actually kinda curious. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/39 "2011-05-23T22:02:07Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > On this very board, the Born Again Atheist ™ crowd frequently asserts that there is no god. They do not know this for certain, in fact, it is not possible for them to know this for certain. Do you know for certain that there are no smurfs? Do you get butthurt if someone says the Keebler elves aren’t real. This “you don’t know” shit is fatuous. what I DO know is that there has never been either any demonstrated evidence or necessity for sky gods. I therefore assume that they don’t exist until someone shows me a reason to assume otherwise. Saying “you don’t know” is philosophically vaccuous unless you’re willing to get just as indignant if people say there is no Flying Spaghetti Monster. You aren’t making a point. You aren’t stopping anybody in their tracks or pointing out a weakness. You’re just loudly demonstrating a lack of critical thinking ability. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/40 "2011-05-23T22:05:02Z")
> [@Omegaman](#): > > Christian here. > > Your relationship with or without God is your business. > > I know I personally don’t wander about the land damning anyone to hell. > > If somebody damns you to hell, and apparently that’s the case, hence the pitting, > > tell em’ to piss up a rope. No human can damn another to hell. > > Which I presume you to be taking literally, amirite? > > Dang it! Maggie beat me to it. The real question for Christians who believe in Hell is whether eternal damnation is consistent with a benevolent God. The answer is spoilered below: Nope. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935.md?page=3)