# A challenge to any Christian: before condemning me to hell, go get waterboarded **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 23, 2011, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935 "2011-05-23T19:03:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/61 "2011-05-24T01:36:35Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > In all honesty, I meant to add the URL, and then for some reason checked myself. > > Maybe an evangelical put an evil eye on me. I’d better get a card! Here, let me help you: What are they called? “Get out of Hell, Free” First letter of each of those words? “GOOHF” Just add a “dot COM” and you’re done. Cut and paste the “[http://www](http://www).” from your browser address bar if you can’t remember it. Keep your card handy, and Randy will give you wisdom that can overcome any evangelical’s curse. Praise the mighty Cassingham! (BTW, the URL is printed on the cards ;), hence the “Keep your card handy”, but I didn’t need to look. I used the procedure above.) ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/62 "2011-05-24T01:53:58Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Wait a minute! I can tell him to go to hell? Yes, but then he could use one of the cards I and **Morgyn** have been hijacking this thread about, to get out of it. :(:smack: ETA: Mods? Ruling please. Have I and **Morgyn** been doing a “thread hijack” by “Pit rules”, or are we OK? Fucking rules! We need a “Get out of the Pit, Free” card. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/63 "2011-05-24T01:55:15Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > On this very board, the Born Again Atheist ™ crowd frequently asserts that there is no god. They do not know this for certain, in fact, it is not possible for them to know this for certain. The only possible way to answer that question is to die, and experience whatever death is for oneself. > > I happen to be an atheist…but I realize I could be wrong. So could you. If you’re going to be condescending, at least be condescending to the right person. I can’t recall ever having made absolute statements about the existence or nonexistence of the divine on these boards. Furthermore, asserting the nonexistence of an afterlife would be far from filling in the blanks with whatever makes me feel good. Also, demanding absolute certainty isn’t productive. I can’t be certain that any given bridge won’t collapse as I cross it, but I still cross bridges confident that I’ll survive. If some guy tells me that crossing a bridge is certain death, I will disregard his advice; you telling me that I don’t know for certain that the next time I cross a bridge won’t be fatal (while true) won’t persuade me to behave differently. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/64 "2011-05-24T02:11:04Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > This OP doesn’t claim to have any answers, and there’s a qualitative difference anyway between telling people to believe in magic and telling people to use thir fucking heads. So what? You said he should be shouting at the religionists, which he already is doing. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/65 "2011-05-24T03:22:14Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Hey, **Budget Player Cadet** , there’s a non-negligible difference between “any Christian” and “any evangelical christian who believes all those who believe differently should go to hell, or who believe that anyone deserves to go to hell.” The latter is implied with this thread. In fact, the qualification for being targeted by the title is that you _would_ condemn me to hell. > [@](#): > > And as far as I am concerned, he who waterboards or condones waterboarding is a torturer. > > The rumbling you can hear from upstate New York is three generations of my Republican ancestors **spinning in their graves at what the G.O.P. has become**. @Bold/underlined: _no shit, sherlock_. I could’ve chosen anything else, though. AFAIK there is no geneva convention in the typical definition of hell. > [@Steophan](#): > > I’m pretty atheist, to put it mildly, and even I know that christianity doesn’t say that hell=torture. Don’t confuse medieval poetry with theology. A fair number of them do, AFAIK. I mean, what do you think the WBC means when it says “you’re gonna go to hell”? Sure, a good number of christians don’t hold this definition, but an unreasonably large number (read: more than zero) do. And this thread is directed at them. > [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > Not to mention - it’s not the Christians who are condemning people to Hell. It’s not their decision. It’s God’s - he’s the only judge. > > Christians may say that you are going to Hell, but they don’t have the authority to actually send you there. Yes, but they are _saying_ that they hope I will burn in eternal torture for all eternity. If that isn’t fucked up, I don’t know what is. > [@tdn](#): > > Forget waterboarding. I challenge anyone to spend an hour with my dentist. +rep ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/66 "2011-05-24T04:05:56Z")
Um, the WBC consists soly of the Phelps family. That’s it. They’re not really a good example. (Not saying there aren’t fundie assholes out there, just that I wouldn’t use them) And I don’t think we really HAVE any hellfire and brimstone evangelical posters here nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/67 "2011-05-24T04:26:43Z")
Yes, but we have some bad trolls. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/68 "2011-05-24T04:40:49Z")
There are plenty of Christian denominations which preach an eternal, burning Hell, including the Catholic Church. Let’s not act like that’s some fringe belief in Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Naxos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Naxos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naxos)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/69 "2011-05-24T05:32:57Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There are plenty of Christian denominations which preach an eternal, burning Hell, including the Catholic Church. Let’s not act like that’s some fringe belief in Christianity. Correct. In addition, every non-Christian ever lived or who will ever live is condemned to be in this hell forever, no questions asked. This is why Christianity is a destructive, aggressive and violent mental disorder. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/70 "2011-05-24T05:48:08Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > And I don’t think we really HAVE any hellfire and brimstone evangelical posters here nowadays. Well yeah, they got Raptured. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/71 "2011-05-24T07:44:34Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Yes, but we have some bad trolls. Says you? Who’s been here for, what, two days now? ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/72 "2011-05-24T09:24:46Z")
[QUOTE=Oakminster] I happen to be an atheist…but I realize I could be wrong [/QUOTE] Then you are not an atheist. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/73 "2011-05-24T10:29:55Z")
No point waterboarding the evangelical preachers. All that rentboy bukkake they do on the sly has them immune. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/74 "2011-05-24T11:11:45Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Says you? Who’s been here for, what, two days now? Gee, it seems like so much longer… ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/75 "2011-05-24T11:57:34Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Agreed, with one exception. We do have all the fucking answers. Prove it. What is the answer to 14 k of g in a f p d? ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/76 "2011-05-24T13:55:14Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There are plenty of Christian denominations which preach an eternal, burning Hell, including the Catholic Church. Let’s not act like that’s some fringe belief in Christianity. Some folks need to visit a Baptist church. Any good Baptist minister can conjure up visions of lakes of fire, falling brimstone, flayed flesh and eternal torment, enough to scare the piss out of any kid. I can’t imagine how it doesn’t scare the piss out of any adult who believes in God. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/77 "2011-05-24T14:01:31Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Says you? Who’s been here for, what, two days now? Yep, and seen two of 'em in as many days. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/78 "2011-05-24T14:25:26Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > A few? And maybe what you are saying is correct, but I can guarantee you that it wasn’t accomplished as a “gotcha” type argument, per this OP. > > And I’d be surprised if any of those converts were Evangelical Christians, as noted in the post I was responding to. People who take the Bible (almost) literally, and believe in hell as a place of eternal torment. I note your almost, but no-one who takes the bible literally should believe that hell is a place of eternal torment. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There are plenty of Christian denominations which preach an eternal, burning Hell, including the Catholic Church. Let’s not act like that’s some fringe belief in Christianity. I went to churches of several denominations before my apostasy, and I don’t think I ever encountered that teaching. That includes evangelical churches. This was, however, in the UK, and things may be different here. My understanding is that it’s a predominantly catholic view that people with no great knowledge of christianity assign to most christians, and that catholicism is hardly literalist about the bible. I’m open to correction on either of those points though. I’ve heard it said many times that christians believe all non-christians will burn forever, but rarely by practising christians. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/79 "2011-05-24T14:52:25Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I wasn’t talking about you. Well, I beg your humble forgiveness. I am but one man who subscribes to my own truth, but when you cast aspersions on religion in general, it appears you cast judgment upon all. I would like to believe this is not the case. Although many of your previous posts contradict that sentiment. As for my self, my life has been pretty short of love, but lots of hate. I’m sure you’re mileage varies. ---
**Author:** ![boozilu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@boozilu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boozilu)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935/80 "2011-05-24T15:23:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by \*\*Diogenes the Cynic \*\* > > There are plenty of Christian denominations which preach an eternal, burning Hell, including the Catholic Church. Let’s not act like that’s some fringe belief in Christianity. After 12 years of Catholic school (in the US) and still going to Church (I KNOW!), I can tell you that I was taught that Hell was being without God and Heaven was being with God. Maybe torture and the like was taught in the early grades (easier to understand), but by High School it was definitely a “state of mind” thing. I was also taught that the stories in the OT are not necessarily to be taken literally. OTOH, everything I start feeling superior to people who take the bible literally and believe kooky stuff, I remember that I believe Jesus came back to life! So everyone’s religion sounds kooky to a non-believer. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-any-christian-before-condemning-me-to-hell-go-get-waterboarded/582935.md?page=5)