# A charge of voting fraud has been brought! (Against a Trump voter, natch) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 22, 2020, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-charge-of-voting-fraud-has-been-brought-against-a-trump-voter-natch/928683 "2020-12-22T21:28:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-charge-of-voting-fraud-has-been-brought-against-a-trump-voter-natch/928683/1 "2020-12-22T21:28:39Z")
[https://thehill.com/homenews/531242-pennsylvania-trump-supporter-charged-with-voter-fraud](https://thehill.com/homenews/531242-pennsylvania-trump-supporter-charged-with-voter-fraud) > A Pennsylvania man has been charged with illegally casting a ballot for [President Trump](https://thehill.com/people/donald-trump) in the name of his deceased mother in this year’s presidential election, authorities announced on Monday. Clearly the only adequate remedy is to Invalidate all Trump votes in Pennsylvania! ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-charge-of-voting-fraud-has-been-brought-against-a-trump-voter-natch/928683/2 "2020-12-22T21:32:05Z")
This is just the break the Trump campaign has been desperately looking for! Release the Kraken!!! ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-charge-of-voting-fraud-has-been-brought-against-a-trump-voter-natch/928683/3 "2020-12-22T21:45:01Z")
How did they know for which candidate he voted? I thought that was all supposed to be secret, and separated from the outer mailing envelope? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-charge-of-voting-fraud-has-been-brought-against-a-trump-voter-natch/928683/4 "2020-12-22T21:57:28Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > How did they know for which candidate he voted? I thought that was all supposed to be secret It’s ballots that are secret, you’re allowed to read news stories. > Stollsteimer said Bartman had registered both [dead] women as Republicans and told investigators he had done so to help reelect Donald Trump. The district attorney said he only mentioned the party affiliation because of multiple conspiracy theories circulating about voter fraud, adding that this is the only case during this election that his office has encountered. I also love that his lawyer cites his client’s “political frustration” as though that’s some kind of mitigation. If I steal someone’s car, is “vehicular frustration” a defense? Let’s not even think about how this guy might defend a sexual assault. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-charge-of-voting-fraud-has-been-brought-against-a-trump-voter-natch/928683/5 "2020-12-22T22:07:29Z")
Republicans are transparent like children. Always talking about someone commiting voter fraud, because they know full well they’re open to doing it. Hell, screwing with the vote is a full time job for Republican politicians. The only voting system that a Republican is pleased with is one that disenfranchises voters, rather than one that encourages and enables voting. Ooh, it’s frightening, it’s… it’s… the voice of the people! ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-charge-of-voting-fraud-has-been-brought-against-a-trump-voter-natch/928683/6 "2020-12-22T22:12:35Z")
Of course this is why Republicans are so certain that Democrats are cheating. It’s projection. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-charge-of-voting-fraud-has-been-brought-against-a-trump-voter-natch/928683/7 "2020-12-22T22:28:10Z")
I knew there was no way in hell Trump got as many votes as he did. Mass voter fraud explains it. Trump is correct it was a landslide election. trump’s votes are right wing fraud, investigate the red counties and find the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-charge-of-voting-fraud-has-been-brought-against-a-trump-voter-natch/928683/8 "2020-12-22T22:35:10Z")
I really hope they issue some formal and very prominent announcement of a revised vote tally in Pennsylvania. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-charge-of-voting-fraud-has-been-brought-against-a-trump-voter-natch/928683/9 "2020-12-22T23:36:51Z")
They still don’t, or shouldn’t, know for whom he actually voted. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-charge-of-voting-fraud-has-been-brought-against-a-trump-voter-natch/928683/10 "2020-12-22T23:41:25Z")
The fact that only a registered Republican was charged (and not the 70,000 fraudulent Democrats) only shows how deep the deep state goes. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-charge-of-voting-fraud-has-been-brought-against-a-trump-voter-natch/928683/11 "2020-12-22T23:43:38Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > They still don’t, or shouldn’t, know for whom he actually voted. True enough. He registered his dead relatives as Republicans, and said is motivation was to help reelect Donald Trump. It would be quite wrong to draw any inference about how he cast the illegal vote. So nobody really knows. It’s a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-charge-of-voting-fraud-has-been-brought-against-a-trump-voter-natch/928683/12 "2020-12-22T23:47:56Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > They still don’t, or shouldn’t, know for whom he actually voted. Actually, they do. From the article linked in the OP’s article. > **[Delaware County man charged with registering dead relatives to vote in...](https://www.inquirer.com/news/bruce-bartman-election-fraud-delaware-county-20201221.html)** > > Bruce Bartman, 70, told investigators he acted in an attempt to further President Trump’s campaign. He was charged with perjury and unlawful voting. > Bartman used his mother’s driver’s license to register her to vote online, and then requested and filled out an absentee ballot in her name, Stollsteimer said. He repeated the process for Weihman, his mother-in-law, using her Social Security number. The state’s system flagged the information as belonging to a dead person, but Bartman signed a letter confirming the woman was still alive. > > He did not, however, cast a ballot in Weihman’s name, according to prosecutors. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-charge-of-voting-fraud-has-been-brought-against-a-trump-voter-natch/928683/13 "2020-12-22T23:49:19Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > It’s a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma. Pushing a conspiracy theory in a wheel barrow. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-charge-of-voting-fraud-has-been-brought-against-a-trump-voter-natch/928683/14 "2020-12-22T23:54:29Z")
“Furthering President Trump’s campaign” doesn’t necessarily mean he actually voted “Trump” on the fraudulent ballot. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-charge-of-voting-fraud-has-been-brought-against-a-trump-voter-natch/928683/15 "2020-12-22T23:56:46Z")
Whuh? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-charge-of-voting-fraud-has-been-brought-against-a-trump-voter-natch/928683/16 "2020-12-22T23:57:24Z")
Full quote that you edited. > District Attorney Jack Stollsteimer said Bartman **admitted** to casting the illegal ballot to “further the campaign of Donald Trump.” Bolding mine. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-charge-of-voting-fraud-has-been-brought-against-a-trump-voter-natch/928683/17 "2020-12-23T00:01:48Z")
Yes, that’s the allegation. I prefer to wait until the case is fully adjudicated. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![UDS1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e47774/32.png) [@UDS1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS1)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-charge-of-voting-fraud-has-been-brought-against-a-trump-voter-natch/928683/18 "2020-12-23T00:29:27Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Yes, that’s the allegation. I prefer to wait until the case is fully adjudicated. The adjudication of the case will not address the question of which candidate he voted for, because that’s not an element of the charge laid. So we already have the best evidence we are going to have on this matter; his own public assertions about his acts and the motivation for them. You are as well-positioned as you will ever be to divine this mystery. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-charge-of-voting-fraud-has-been-brought-against-a-trump-voter-natch/928683/19 "2020-12-23T00:37:58Z")
We may never know. But that’s as it should be. The most important democratic principle at stake here is that we must assure the secrecy of illegal votes. Otherwise the risk is obvious - somebody about to cast an illegal vote might be intimidated or bribed. ---
**Author:** ![Boycott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boycott/32/6741_2.png) [@Boycott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boycott)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-charge-of-voting-fraud-has-been-brought-against-a-trump-voter-natch/928683/20 "2020-12-23T00:56:33Z")
Does this mean we can demand a recount in all the states Trump won? /s. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-charge-of-voting-fraud-has-been-brought-against-a-trump-voter-natch/928683.md?page=2)