# A Chess Problem **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 2, 2007, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chess-problem/390562 "2007-02-02T17:05:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SiXSwordS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2007, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chess-problem/390562/1 "2007-02-02T17:05:07Z")
I ran across this[Chess problem](http://www.chessville.com/instruction/POW/instr_weekly_problem_2002_12_08_A.htm) online maybe a month or so ago. I just happened on it again today and it got me again. Really look at it and try to do it without using the hint. BTW, this reminds me of a one page murder mystery I read somewhere, but I can’t seem to find it. If anyone else recognizes it and can point me to the source I would appreciate it. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2007, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chess-problem/390562/2 "2007-02-02T17:53:12Z")
Tricky, tricky! No hints here, quit cheating! It’s pretty obvious with their hint, like **SiXSwordS** said, try hard before you click on it. Either way, you’re probably going to feel pretty dumb. I did! ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2007, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chess-problem/390562/3 "2007-02-02T18:14:27Z")
I get the trick (after reading down the page), but I don’t get the move. I’m not following their notation for the moves 1.Kd4 mate or 1.fxg8=N mate, for example ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2007, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chess-problem/390562/4 "2007-02-02T18:21:20Z")
A huge hint at the answer: In a recent thread about mistakes in movies, a doper pointed out that often chess boards are rotated the wrong way. That probably is what prompted me notice that right off. I checked other puzzles in the archive, noticed they boards were correctly oriented, so I gathered that was part of the problem. In other words, I got really, really lucky. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2007, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chess-problem/390562/5 "2007-02-02T18:29:30Z")
The chess board is labeled with letters going from left to right, and numbers from top to bottom (from white’s perspective). K is king, N is knight. If there is only one square labeled, it means only one piece can possibly move there, and it might not even have a K, Q, B, etc. qualifier. In addition, x means “takes”, signifying a capture. The = sign means the player chose to upgrade their pawn to a kNight since they made it to the last rank. Look [here](http://www.chesscentral.com/novice/chess_notation.htm) for a more thourough explaination. ---
**Author:** ![SiXSwordS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2007, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chess-problem/390562/6 "2007-02-02T20:52:55Z")
I’m most impressed by the fact that every turn has a mate-in-one. Very clever! ---
**Author:** ![According\_to\_Pliny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@According\_to\_Pliny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/According_to_Pliny)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chess-problem/390562/7 "2007-02-03T00:19:47Z")
A quick check of chess boards for sale shows that color orientation is not uniform. ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chess-problem/390562/8 "2007-02-03T00:34:31Z")
[QUOTE=Eonwe] I get the trick (after reading down the page), but I don’t get the move. I’m not following their notation for the moves 1.Kd4 mate or 1.fxg8=N mate, for example [/QUOTE] And which of those is the correct checkmating move, depends in which way you decide the board is turned, which I believe is what **SixSwords** is alluding to. There are two possible choices for ‘correct’ orientation, and each choice has a different checkmate move associated with it. > [@According to Pliny](#): > > A quick check of chess boards for sale shows that color orientation is not uniform. Um, yeah. And this scammer on eBay sent me a book where all of the pages were printed upside down, and bound in reverse order. The bastard. ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chess-problem/390562/9 "2007-02-03T02:11:43Z")
I just showed this to my wife. She figured it out in, like, two minutes. Why would someone this smart marry someone like me? That’s what I want to know! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chess-problem/390562/10 "2007-02-03T02:55:14Z")
You could be thinking of this book: > **[CHESS MYST OF S. HOLMES: Amazon.co.uk: Smullyan, Raymond M.: 9780394737577:...](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mysteries-Sherlock-Holmes-Smullyan-Raymond/dp/0394737571)** > > Buy CHESS MYST OF S. HOLMES by Smullyan, Raymond M. (ISBN: 9780394737577) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders. which together with the companion volume ‘Chess mysteries of the Arabian Knights’ covers positions such as problem 1 here: > **[Over 1850 Bestselling Premade Book Covers for Sale](https://www.rockingbookcovers.com/premade-covers/)** > > Hello! If you're looking for premade book covers that can help you sell more books, I have a collection of about 1800 of them for sale! They come in many genres and are a great quick option for getting an affordable book cover design. These premade... ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chess-problem/390562/11 "2007-02-03T03:26:23Z")
It seems like there is a solution also for the board unrotated (ignoring the colors of the squares of course.) Would RxQ do it or am I missing something? -Kris ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chess-problem/390562/12 "2007-02-03T04:40:11Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] It seems like there is a solution also for the board unrotated (ignoring the colors of the squares of course.) Would RxQ do it or am I missing something? -Kris [/QUOTE] Nope. If RxQ, then Black responds NxR (check). The resulting uncovered check from the bishop could then be blocked with the same knight. BxQ would work if black “plays along.” ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chess-problem/390562/13 "2007-02-03T06:22:17Z")
[QUOTE=garygnu] Nope. If RxQ, then Black responds NxR (check). The resulting uncovered check from the bishop could then be blocked with the same knight. BxQ would work if black “plays along.” [/QUOTE] That’s why I don’t play chess. ☹😉 ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chess-problem/390562/14 "2007-02-03T12:44:02Z")
[QUOTE=According to Pliny] A quick check of chess boards for sale shows that color orientation is not uniform. [/QUOTE] ‘Light on the right’ is the rule. From article 2.1 of the rules of chess: ‘The chessboard is placed between the players in such a way that the near corner square to the right of the player is white.’ Here’s a brilliant chess problem from the Master of joke puzzles, Sam Loyd. I realise it’s a mate in 5, but you don’t have to solve it. Just guess which is the **least likely** white piece (or pawn) to mate. [http://www.chess.freegames.eu.com/problems-puzzles/sam\_loyd.html](http://www.chess.freegames.eu.com/problems-puzzles/sam_loyd.html) Solution: [spoiler]It’s the pawn on b2! 1. b2-b4 (threatens 2.Rf5 and 3. Rf1 mate) Rc8-c5 2. b4xc5 (threatens 2.Rb1 mate) a3-a2 3. c5-c6 (threatens 2.Rf5 and 3. Rf1 mate) Bd8-c7 4. c6xb7 any 5. b7xa8=Q mate [/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chess-problem/390562/15 "2007-02-03T12:46:34Z")
[QUOTE=garygnu] Nope. If RxQ, then Black responds NxR (check). The resulting uncovered check from the bishop could then be blocked with the same knight. BxQ would work if black “plays along.” [/QUOTE] After RxQ, Black’s only legal move is NxR. He could resign, but it still wouldn’t be mate. There is no concept in chess of ‘playing along’. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chess-problem/390562/16 "2007-02-03T13:10:08Z")
[QUOTE=SCSimmons] I just showed this to my wife. She figured it out in, like, two minutes. Why would someone this smart marry someone like me? That’s what I want to know! 🙂 [/QUOTE] My guess is that she sees the type of smarts you have and prefers them to “chess smarts.” Being able to see the wisdom in your question may have been a real turn-on for her. There’s more than one kind of smart. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chess-problem/390562/17 "2007-02-03T13:40:39Z")
[QUOTE=glee] You could be thinking of this book: > **[CHESS MYST OF S. HOLMES: Amazon.co.uk: Smullyan, Raymond M.: 9780394737577:...](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mysteries-Sherlock-Holmes-Smullyan-Raymond/dp/0394737571)** > > Buy CHESS MYST OF S. HOLMES by Smullyan, Raymond M. (ISBN: 9780394737577) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders. which together with the companion volume ‘Chess mysteries of the Arabian Knights’ covers positions such as problem 1 here: > **[UK Online Casinos - Free Spins No Deposit Guide for 2026](https://whitedovebooks.co.uk/)** > > Compare the UK's top-rated online casinos. Honest reviews, welcome bonus breakdowns, payment methods, game ranges and what each site genuinely offers real-money players. [/QUOTE] I have to say that Chess Mysteries of Sherlock Holmes is just about my favourite puzzle book. Puzzle fans who don’t like chess puzzles should not be put off, because the retrograde analysis problems in this book are really just logical deduction problems that happen to be set on a chess board. You don’t need to any good at chess or even interested in it to enjoy them. I suppose people familiar with retro analysis would find Smullyan’s problems far too easy, but it was my introduction to the subject and I found it utterly absorbing. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chess-problem/390562/18 "2007-02-03T21:29:05Z")
[QUOTE=glee] There is no concept in chess of ‘playing along’. 🙂 [/QUOTE] What about ‘helpmate’? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2007, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chess-problem/390562/19 "2007-02-04T00:33:58Z")
[QUOTE=glee] After RxQ, Black’s only legal move is NxR. He could resign, but it still wouldn’t be mate. There is no concept in chess of ‘playing along’. 🙂 [/QUOTE] Okay, I’m still not getting it. Of course, this isn’t mate in one, but: 1. RxQ+ NxR 2. Kf7+ Ne6 3. BxN Isn’t that checkmate? And aren’t both of Black’s moves here forced? (If I had a board in front of me to play with, I’d probably be understanding this better.) -Kris ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2007, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chess-problem/390562/20 "2007-02-04T03:15:18Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] What about ‘helpmate’? [/QUOTE] Yes, sorry, I should have been more precise. :o There are some amazing ideas in chess problems, which come from changing the purpose of the game. They include: - both sides work together to checkmate Black (helpmate) - White tries to be checkmated; Black tries not to give checkmate (selfmate) - one side doesn’t move for a while (series-problem) But none of this applies to mate-in-one problems, which is what I meant. Frylock, Assuming we ignore board orientation in the original position, White is comfortably winning. I think there are two mates in three: 1. pxR (threat QxN mate) and Black can only delay mate by knight checks 2. RxQ (as you say) But the condition is **mate in one** , and **there’s only one way to do it**. This is considered vital in chess problems. There should only be one solution (unless the composer finds two or more solutions which are all worth seeing.) Here’s a good intro to the subject: [http://www.bcps.knightsfield.co.uk/introduction.html](http://www.bcps.knightsfield.co.uk/introduction.html) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-chess-problem/390562.md?page=2)