# A Christmas Story plot hole? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 26, 2012, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-christmas-story-plot-hole/642126 "2012-11-26T04:33:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-christmas-story-plot-hole/642126/21 "2012-11-27T15:16:14Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > As I understand it, that’s a matter of debate given a fair amount of contradictory evidence. Okay, maybe I shouldn’t assert that it’s set in 1939 so confidently. But the people at the department store dressed up as characters from the movie \*\*\*The Wizard of Oz \*\*\*lead me to conclude that it’s 1939, the year that movie came out. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-christmas-story-plot-hole/642126/22 "2012-11-27T15:34:40Z")
the movie was intended to depict late 30s and early 40s without a specific year. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-christmas-story-plot-hole/642126/23 "2012-11-27T15:50:48Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I remember when one of my brothers was getting it for doing something dumb. I could count down the time until my mother would turn and blame me for it too, even if I was in no way involved. Me too. It’s like my mom couldn’t conceive of the fact that she had had more than one child of the each gender, at least when getting into trouble was concerned. My brother didn’t get into trouble, and I didn’t get into trouble – it was “the boys” who got into trouble. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-christmas-story-plot-hole/642126/24 "2012-11-27T16:46:58Z")
According to this: [http://www.redriderleglamps.com/productDetails.cfm?merchID=100324231322843861&category=100324202230718290&position=2](http://www.redriderleglamps.com/productDetails.cfm?merchID=100324231322843861&category=100324202230718290&position=2) Ralphie’s decoder from Ovaltine was a 1940 Speed-O-Matic. Collectors on the net have said that it was sold around the Christmas of 1939 and by the Christmas of 1940, the 1941 model was being sold. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-christmas-story-plot-hole/642126/25 "2012-11-27T16:54:26Z")
Looking back to that age, it would have been perfectly normal for everyone in that group to get heat from a teacher and parents, even if they weren’t directly responsible. ---
**Author:** ![Hermione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cdc98d/32.png) [@Hermione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermione)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-christmas-story-plot-hole/642126/26 "2012-11-27T17:18:23Z")
I think there’s a Fridge Brilliance reason for all the anachronisms in the movie. Many have pointed out that though the movie is supposed to take place around 1940, there are elements that don’t fit in with it (the specific model of BB gun, the integrated classroom–which may or may not be an anachronism–songs on the radio that weren’t out by then, etc.). But there could be two reasons for that to be deliberate. One is that the director was going for a sort of “universal childhood” experience, with details that would have been familiar to anyone more or less of that generation without being pinned down to a specific year. The other is the theory I subscribe to–that this is being filtered through the adult Ralphie’s memory of his childhood, and so, details got mixed up. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-christmas-story-plot-hole/642126/27 "2012-11-27T17:35:22Z")
> [@Hermione](#): > > I think there’s a Fridge Brilliance reason for all the anachronisms in the movie. > > Many have pointed out that though the movie is supposed to take place around 1940, there are elements that don’t fit in with it (the specific model of BB gun, the integrated classroom–which may or may not be an anachronism–songs on the radio that weren’t out by then, etc.). > > But there could be two reasons for that to be deliberate. One is that the director was going for a sort of “universal childhood” experience, with details that would have been familiar to anyone more or less of that generation without being pinned down to a specific year. > > The other is the theory I subscribe to–that this is being filtered through the adult Ralphie’s memory of his childhood, and so, details got mixed up. Regarding the BB gun, it looks like it not existing in that configuration was due to a faulty memory of the writer. The Red Ryder came out in 1938. Red Ryders didn’t have a compass and sundial in any year (except for limited editions for the 20th and 25th anniversaries of the movie). > [@](#): > > The little-known fact about the specific gun at the center of the story is that it existed in that exact form only in the imagination of Shepherd, who died in 1999. > > “When he came to Daisy in 1982 or '83 and wanted three guns made for the movie,” Daisy marketing Vice President Joe Murfin said, “our marketing director tried hard to explain that’s not how the gun was made.” > > Shepherd insisted the Red Ryder of his childhood bore a compass and sundial. But Daisy officials noted that another rifle, the Buck Jones, had those features, not the Red Ryder. Their theory was that Shepherd had both rifles as a boy and may have merged their parts after one gun broke. > > “He would not be convinced of that,” Murfin said, and Shepherd asked Daisy to make the three guns to his specifications, which the company did. Daisy manufactured the rifles with those features for consumers in 1983 and '84, Murfin said. Since then, except for limited editions of that gun for the 20th and 25th anniversaries of the movie, Daisy had continued to make the Red Ryders without the sundial and compass. [http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010-12-19/news/ct-met-red-ryder-mon-20101219\_1\_bb-gun-daisy-outdoor-products-daisy-red-ryder-bb](http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010-12-19/news/ct-met-red-ryder-mon-20101219_1_bb-gun-daisy-outdoor-products-daisy-red-ryder-bb) ---
**Author:** ![SirRay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@SirRay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirRay)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-christmas-story-plot-hole/642126/28 "2012-11-27T19:25:49Z")
> [@Hermione](#): > > But there could be two reasons for that to be deliberate. One is that the director was going for a sort of “universal childhood” experience, with details that would have been familiar to anyone more or less of that generation without being pinned down to a specific year. > > The other is the theory I subscribe to–that this is being filtered through the adult Ralphie’s memory of his childhood, and so, details got mixed up. Of course, the third theory is that the various sub-plots (the leg lamp, the BB-gun, the Bumpus’s dogs stealing the ham, the bully and so on) are from various short stories that Jean Shepherd wrote over the years melded into one story, so the parts don’t fit exactly. The various Shepherd books that have the “Ralphie” protagonist stories (In God We Trust, All Others Pay Cash; Wanda Hickey’s Night of Golden Memories; A Fist Full of Fig Newtons…there might be others) don’t seem particularly consistent in timeline, although they sort of track Jean Shepard’s life: in one story Ralph goes to the 1933 Chicago World’s Fair (not as an infant either), and in later stories he serves during WII in the Army Signal Corp - this timeline would be rather inconsistent with the Ralph of “A Christmas Story”, but fits with someone born in 1921 like Jean Shepard was. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-christmas-story-plot-hole/642126/29 "2012-11-27T19:34:07Z")
Great stories are timeless. A BB gun is so much more than the particular construction of one from a specific year. A BB gun is the symbol of freedom to a young boy. It makes you just like a real cowboy, it makes a boy feel like a man. A Christmas Story transcends the physical properties of time and space. Ralphie got a Red Ryder with a compass and a sundial, and it happened when it did. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-christmas-story-plot-hole/642126/30 "2012-11-27T19:45:06Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > He got a mouthful of soap because he wouldn’t tell his mother where he’d heard the word ‘fuck’, a word he’d heard his father use regularly. He didn’t say his dad because then he’d get punished worse. So he tells his mother one of his friends told him about it and that kid gets a massive beating from his mother. No, he got a mouthful of soap for _repeating_ the word “fuck.” And my take on him throwing his friend under the streetcar is that if he’d ratted on his dad, he might have started a screaming match between his parents, but his dad probably wouldn’t have held it against him. So: Dick move, Ralphie. IMHO, you _deserved_ to wear that bunny costume all morning. ---
**Author:** ![kurtisokc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kurtisokc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kurtisokc)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-christmas-story-plot-hole/642126/31 "2012-11-27T23:58:58Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > No, he got a mouthful of soap for _repeating_ the word “fuck.” > > And my take on him throwing his friend under the streetcar is that if he’d ratted on his dad, he might have started a screaming match between his parents, but his dad probably wouldn’t have held it against him. > > So: Dick move, Ralphie. IMHO, you _deserved_ to wear that bunny costume all morning. Sorry to hijack my own thread, but am I the only one who thinks Ralphie’s mom is a twit for not knowing where he heard the F-word? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-christmas-story-plot-hole/642126/32 "2012-11-28T00:30:44Z")
Well, in denial, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-christmas-story-plot-hole/642126/33 "2012-11-28T00:37:09Z")
Indiana schools weren’t desegregated by law until 1949. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-christmas-story-plot-hole/642126/34 "2012-11-28T00:53:12Z")
It might thrill you all to know that the [wonderful sequel](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHJNBZ2rrMM) was recently released. ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-christmas-story-plot-hole/642126/35 "2012-11-28T01:16:05Z")
That trailer plays like a parody. My god. ---
**Author:** ![Hermione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cdc98d/32.png) [@Hermione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermione)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-christmas-story-plot-hole/642126/36 "2012-11-28T01:18:26Z")
As I pointed out in the YouTube comments for that, there have been other “sequels” to ACS, namely _Ollie Hopnoodle’s Haven Of Bliss_ and _It Runs In The Family_(aka _My Summer Story.)_ I haven’t seen them but I understand they were quite good. They did what this DTV sequel is supposed to be doing as well–adapting other Shepherd stories. (And to be frank, ACS wasn’t even the first screen version of Shepherd’s stories. There was a PBS movie called _The Phantom of the Open Hearth_ in the seventies. [Behold, the ORIGINAL leg lamp!)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzstbfBi6R8) But I think that the reason ACS2 is bugging so many people is that it’s being so blatantly advertised as THE OFFICIAL CHRISTMAS STORY SEQUEL, with similar settings and performances. (For example, Daniel Stern just seems to be imitating Darren McGavin instead of putting his own stamp on the role.) To say nothing of the fact that they’re retreading lines and scenes from the original! (“IT’S A CLINKER!”) Maybe if this were just another adaptation of Shepherd’s stories instead of trying to be a pretender to the throne, it would be easier to swallow. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-christmas-story-plot-hole/642126/37 "2012-11-28T01:24:49Z")
The reason it bugs me is because it looks like it’s been made to be a HI-LARIOUS slapstick comedy. ACS was pretty subdued. ---
**Author:** ![Hermione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cdc98d/32.png) [@Hermione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermione)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-christmas-story-plot-hole/642126/38 "2012-11-28T01:39:18Z")
Well, here’s a bit of news to counteract the sequel–A Christmas Story has been made into a Broadway musical. And it’s apparently getting pretty good reviews. Even those who aren’t as crazy about the script are giving good marks to the score. I plan to put the cast album on my Christmas list. It sounds as though it has more heart and sincerity to it than, say, the Elf musical–I only saw one number from that on the Thanksgiving parade and it just seemed so cookie-cutter and soulless. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-christmas-story-plot-hole/642126/39 "2012-11-28T04:49:07Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Indiana schools weren’t desegregated by law until 1949. But were they segregated, de jure, before that? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-christmas-story-plot-hole/642126/40 "2012-11-28T05:00:10Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > But were they segregated, de jure, before that? Since it was the actual school segregation law that was repealed in 1949, yes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-christmas-story-plot-hole/642126.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-christmas-story-plot-hole/642126.md?page=3)