# A Civil War retelling **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 4, 2015, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-civil-war-retelling/724230 "2015-07-04T14:41:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-civil-war-retelling/724230/1 "2015-07-04T14:41:33Z")
This is a metaphor, or retelling, or making-strange for the US Civil War that I’ve used on occasion, mostly in “Yes, it was about slavery” arguments. Comments and refinements solicited. It’s 20 minutes into the future. Canada has become an industrial superpower because of aggressive adoption of every green and alternative energy option they could find. Their prospering human population emits more greenhouse gas than all their industries and technologies combined. They justifiably feel pretty good about themselves and their future. Then they look south, and there’s the US, still using megatons of carbon fuels to prop up its industrial, agricultural and consumer economy. There’s lots of blah-blah in the US press about changing over, but the economic weight is against giving up fossil fuels, so nothing much ever happens, and a good majority of USAians are just fine with keeping those petrochemicals in their place. “Hey,” says Canada, “You need to stop and get rid of fossil fuels. It’s destructive to the planet and ruining the life of everyone else here, and yours, too, if you think about it. It’s downright immoral.” “Up yours,” says the US. “You can’t tell us what to do - national sovereignty and all. We stand on our national right to use fossil fuels any way we want - besides, they aren’t good for anything else.” Then the US blows up the CN tower to prove its point. Canada invades and a bloody continental war goes on for several years. The US, cut off from world sources of fossil fuels and finding itself being distanced by the other nations, eventually crumbles. The United States of Canada is drawn together, and what used to be the USA is an economically depressed region slowly rebuilding around green energy… but even a century later defiant “coal rollers” can be spotted flying the US flag and holding midnight drag races. But eventually all of North America is free of fossil-fuel love, barring the few pockets where they can pump it themselves and burn it in secret defiance. The Fourth of July is widely celebrated throughout the region, commemorating all the brave soldiers who died fighting for the American Way and their doomed defense of its national sovereignty. The End, more or less. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-civil-war-retelling/724230/2 "2015-07-04T14:49:58Z")
(Pretty good for post 14,000, eh? Completely accidental.) ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-civil-war-retelling/724230/3 "2015-07-04T15:33:41Z")
It’s a beauty, eh? [http://www.bobanddoug.com/sounds/gwn/the\_call.mp3](http://www.bobanddoug.com/sounds/gwn/the_call.mp3) Quick – someone else post “Blame Canada”! ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-civil-war-retelling/724230/4 "2015-07-04T15:34:19Z")
Getting the drinking going early for the festivities? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-civil-war-retelling/724230/5 "2015-07-04T15:37:18Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Getting the drinking going early for the festivities? Don’t drink. Well, I’m on my second pot of coffee… ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-civil-war-retelling/724230/6 "2015-07-04T15:38:51Z")
The only argument you need to prove the US Civil War was about slavery is to tell the know-nothings to read the statements of secession. Every one says they’re quitting the United States because of hostility to the institution of slavery. If they won’t read the statements of secession, there is no reason to argue further ---
**Author:** ![Boogly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Boogly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boogly)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-civil-war-retelling/724230/7 "2015-07-04T15:39:40Z")
I think that we’d (Americans) would start a new tv show that has a Cadillac Escalade with a US flag on the roof. The story may probably be a homegrown family selling crude oil and dodging the Canadian police forces. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-civil-war-retelling/724230/8 "2015-07-04T15:42:55Z")
> [@tnetennba](#): > > The only argument you need to prove the US Civil War was about slavery is to tell the know-nothings to read the statements of secession. Every one says they’re quitting the United States because of hostility to the institution of slavery. > > If they won’t read the statements of secession, there is no reason to argue further I agree entirely, but some arguments can’t be won with dry facts. The point of the little parable above is to recast the issues in terms that make sense outside of the extended war of interpretation of the actual events. We may have finally reached a watershed moment when most public dialogues can begin with at least a tacit admission that slavery was the real issue… but given how long the argument’s been going on and how many times we seem to have backslid and let the ‘state’s rights’ apologists hold court, I wouldn’t bet on this being the time of a permanent shift. So I’ve found this little fiction useful from time to time. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-civil-war-retelling/724230/9 "2015-07-04T15:52:35Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > So I’ve found this little fiction useful from time to time. I don’t see why, unless the people you’re telling it to don’t think about it. It’s a description of a war of conquest, not a civil war, and might be better suited to explaining why some in the southwestern U.S. wave Mexican flags. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-civil-war-retelling/724230/10 "2015-07-04T15:54:35Z")
In all honesty, it’s far more confusing to suss out your point than the actual history of the U.S. Civil War (And _maybe_ comparing black slavery to coal wasn’t your best idea). ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-civil-war-retelling/724230/11 "2015-07-04T16:08:36Z")
One of your problems here, is, burning fossil fuels isn’t considered any where near as evil and a crime against humanity as slavery is. It’s just considered “Not a Really Good Idea in the Long Run.” So, your little fiction fails to evoke the repulsive, reprehensible notion that all-out war over slavery does. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-civil-war-retelling/724230/12 "2015-07-04T17:37:28Z")
One of the southern objections was northern states using their states’ rights to impede the application of the fugitive slave act. They were in favor of states’ rights only when it suited them. They also wanted the right to extend slavery into the territories. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-civil-war-retelling/724230/13 "2015-07-04T17:43:51Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > One of your problems here, is, burning fossil fuels isn’t considered any where near as evil and a crime against humanity as slavery is. It’s just considered “Not a Really Good Idea in the Long Run.” > > So, your little fiction fails to evoke the repulsive, reprehensible notion that all-out war over slavery does. What would, other than maybe cannibalism? **shrug** I’ve found this a useful way to get around minds locked on “states’ rights” in ignorance of the other arguments. If all you ever run into are thoroughly educated, aware people, it would be pretty useless. If we’re to that point already, I am truly glad to hear it. 🙂 I also think the attitude towards the generations that cooked the planet, among those 100 years from now, won’t be a lot kinder than ours towards the plantation owners. We knew better, too, and rationalized our actions despite what will no doubt be billions of impacted, impoverished lives. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-civil-war-retelling/724230/14 "2015-07-04T20:13:43Z")
> [@Boogly](#): > > I think that we’d (Americans) would start a new tv show that has a Cadillac Escalade with a US flag on the roof. The story may probably be a homegrown family selling crude oil and dodging the Canadian police forces. And it shall be called Dukes of Detroit 🙂 I like the OP’s analogy. Do Ben Aflecks descendants find out their ancestors owned a coal plant and try to hush it up? ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-civil-war-retelling/724230/15 "2015-07-04T23:17:29Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > :::: snip :::: > > I also think the attitude towards the generations that cooked the planet, among those 100 years from now, won’t be a lot kinder than ours towards the plantation owners. We knew better, too, and rationalized our actions despite what will no doubt be billions of impacted, impoverished lives. ↑ ↑ ↑ This X 42 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2015, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-civil-war-retelling/724230/16 "2015-07-05T01:38:43Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > “Up yours,” says the US. "You can’t tell us what to do - national sovereignty and all. …The Fourth of July is widely celebrated throughout the region, commemorating all the brave soldiers who died fighting for the American Way and their doomed defense of its national sovereignty. > > . Except you see, the USA would have national sovereignty but the CSA had none, having ratified that little document called “the Constitution”. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2015, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-civil-war-retelling/724230/17 "2015-07-05T03:04:25Z")
“Canada has become an industrial superpower because of aggressive adoption of every green and alternative energy option they could find. Their prospering human population emits more greenhouse gas than all their industries and technologies combined.” I can hardly wait! And we can revamp Defence Scheme No. 1 as we embark on the mission to make the U.S. the 11th province: > **[Did the U.S. plan an invasion of Canada in the 1920s?](https://www.straightdope.com/21343204/did-the-u-s-plan-an-invasion-of-canada-in-the-1920s)** > > A STAFF REPORT FROM THE STRAIGHT DOPE SCIENCE ADVISORY BOARD ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2015, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-civil-war-retelling/724230/18 "2015-07-05T04:20:35Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > What would, other than maybe cannibalism? > > **shrug** I’ve found this a useful way to get around minds locked on “states’ rights” in ignorance of the other arguments. If all you ever run into are thoroughly educated, aware people, it would be pretty useless. If we’re to that point already, I am truly glad to hear it. 🙂 > I also think the attitude towards the generations that cooked the planet, among those 100 years from now, won’t be a lot kinder than ours towards the plantation owners. We knew better, too, and rationalized our actions despite what will no doubt be billions of impacted, impoverished lives. Ahh, okay. So, the same people who ignore extremely clear historical record from only 150 years ago, will understand the implications of the Confeterate Flag due to some wild fantasy based on Global Warming. Makes perfect sense. I’m sure it’ll change those particular hearts and minds. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2015, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-civil-war-retelling/724230/19 "2015-07-05T06:21:40Z")
He who holds that clear historical record is the whole and only truth of facts is my first choice to pitch my bridge sale to. Just sayin … 😃 \*See, snide, snarky, sarcasm of print does not for or against an argument make. \* ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2015, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-civil-war-retelling/724230/20 "2015-07-05T10:47:03Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Except you see, the USA would have national sovereignty but the CSA had none, having ratified that little document called “the Constitution”. We could tweak the hypothetical so the UN claims the USA signed away its sovereignty back when, and the USA replies _that’s clearly not what we meant,_ promptly sparking the flip-rejoinder equivalent of _yeah, well, Grant vs Lee established otherwise_. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-civil-war-retelling/724230.md?page=2)