# A comment on the Cesario modding **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [February 16, 2010, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-comment-on-the-cesario-modding/529153 "2010-02-16T03:06:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-comment-on-the-cesario-modding/529153/141 "2010-02-19T20:30:04Z")
**elbows** said: > [@](#): > > We’ve already let it go, it’s you who’s continuing the hijack. Your last post in this thread was a taunt to **CarnalK** : > [@](#): > > Pssst, **CarnalK** > > Here’s a hint… You have not posted to address the other ongoing topics of the thread, just this issue. **elbows** said: > [@](#): > > What’s unclear about this? I didn’t use the words dumb or banning and should not be accused of using them, even if you feel that’s what I meant. What’s so unclear about _this_? Nobody has stated you used the _words_ “dumb” or “banning”. You did, however, use the words “drop the hammer” and the only hammer in question would be the “ban hammer”. And your attitude conveyed that you think the moderators are not doing a good job of learning from prior mistakes, because they keep repeating those mistakes. It is totally fair to characterize that attitude as thinking the mods are dumb. **CarnalK** ’s statement that you called for a banning wasn’t stated as a paraphrase because it wasn’t even in quote marks, let alone in a quote box. It was clearly a restatement of his impression of what you said. Your repeated accusation of lying and a call for an apology are unjustified, as “everyone with two braincells can see”. (That _is_ a direct quote, not a paraphrase.) > [@](#): > > It’s an imperfect medium for communication, sometimes people don’t make themselves as clear as they believe they are being. Sometimes it’s easy to read into a thing something the author never intended. Shit happens. While this is cause to seek clarity or an explanation it is not a reason to put words they did not say into their mouth. I completely agree, but I don’t see where anyone is putting words in your mouth, only summarizing what they _think_ you said. > [@](#): > > For myself, when such misreadings of another’s intention is cleared up, I am willing to take them at their word that they didn’t mean what I was inferring. And yet when someone misunderstood your meaning in this case, you accuse them of lying and putting words in your mouth, and demand an apology. I would be totally fine with your saying “That’s not what I meant, you misunderstood” or “I wasn’t clear” or whatever. But the repeated call for an apology was unjustified. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-comment-on-the-cesario-modding/529153/142 "2010-02-19T22:55:19Z")
This is what happens whenever I’m away from the board for a while. I miss all the shit storms. I opened this thread to find out about the new mod, Cesario. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-comment-on-the-cesario-modding/529153/143 "2010-02-19T23:55:49Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > This is what happens whenever I’m away from the board for a while. I miss all the shit storms. I opened this thread to find out about the new mod, Cesario. A detailed recap [here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=552457) ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-comment-on-the-cesario-modding/529153/144 "2010-02-20T01:12:02Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > This is what happens whenever I’m away from the board for a while. I miss all the shit storms. I opened this thread to find out about the new mod, Cesario. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-comment-on-the-cesario-modding/529153/145 "2010-02-20T05:42:46Z")
> [@](#): > > **Irishman** : And yet when someone misunderstood your meaning in this case, you accuse them of lying and putting words in your mouth, and demand an apology. > > I would be totally fine with your saying “That’s not what I meant, you misunderstood” or “I wasn’t clear” or whatever. But the repeated call for an apology was unjustified. Demanding an apology is usually a losing battle. I don’t think you or anyone else was intentionally misstating the truth (lying). But you were putting words in **elbow’s** mouth when you inferred that 'banning" was implied when it was not. When it became clear that **elbows** was not talking about “banning,” an apology from the person who misunderstood would have been the civil and simple thing to do. Another possibility would have been to seek clarification on the original post by **elbows** before posting that “the hammer” meant banning. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-comment-on-the-cesario-modding/529153/146 "2010-02-20T06:42:29Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Demanding an apology is usually a losing battle. I don’t think you or anyone else was intentionally misstating the truth (lying). But you were putting words in **elbow’s** mouth when you inferred that 'banning" was implied when it was not. > > When it became clear that **elbows** was not talking about “banning,” an apology from the person who misunderstood would have been the civil and simple thing to do. Another possibility would have been to seek clarification on the original post by **elbows** before posting that “the hammer” meant banning. First off: Way to follow the conversation. Secondly, for someone so enraptured with her understanding of the English language I’m surprised you are falling on elbows side here. It was not a misunderstanding on my part, it was a flat out mis-communication by him - that I understood the exact same way any native English speaker would. And elbows agrees that the hammer means banning, he was supposedly just talking about past and future Cesarios while every other frigging poster in the thread was talking about Argent Towers. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-comment-on-the-cesario-modding/529153/147 "2010-02-20T14:05:57Z")
I did **not** agree that hammer meant banning, _sigh_. Go ahead, and say I said, something I didn’t, meant something I didn’t, I give up. Whatever you say I said, whatever you say I meant… I’m done. You win. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-comment-on-the-cesario-modding/529153/148 "2010-02-20T17:50:40Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > I did **not** agree that hammer meant banning, _sigh_. > > Go ahead, and say I said, something I didn’t, meant something I didn’t, I give up. > > Whatever you say I said, whatever you say I meant… > > I’m done. You win. You really do seem to have a disconnect when it comes to relating your thoughts. Judging how you characterized my PM, the same disconnect seems to work in the other direction. I can only imagine how frustrating that is for you seeing as how obvious you seem to think it all is. For not figuring that out sooner, I am truly sorry. There were no winners here. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-comment-on-the-cesario-modding/529153/149 "2010-02-22T04:22:42Z")
What did your version of “hammer” mean then out of curiosity? I’ve only heard it as “Ban hammers” and “dropping the Hammer/The Hammer Vote”- ie: the final vote that removes a player instantly in Mafia Games. Both definitions tend to imply a removal of a person from the area/game via some elimination mechanism. I’m curious as to what other interpretations of “Dropping the Hammer” there are? Did you mean “Drop the Hammer” as in a “warning Hammer” or something? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-comment-on-the-cesario-modding/529153/150 "2010-02-22T14:35:40Z")
Maybe he meant he was going to take Rowdy on the high side. (points awarded for the reference) ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-comment-on-the-cesario-modding/529153/151 "2010-02-22T14:39:07Z")
I was commenting on how impotent modding leads to stuff like the AT fiasco. If they’d used their powers a little more judiciously, swiftly, strongly on C, I truly believed that AT would never have done what he did. It was a comment on how they needed to show strength. I was unaware, that ‘hammer’ meant banning to everyone. I was using it to call for more forceful modding. I chose the wrong thread to try and make my point in, and was apparently dreadfully unclear. Don’t know what else I can say? I did **not** call for a banning, was **not** railing at AT but at yet more impotent modding. I still believe it’s what’s at the bottom of a few of the meltdowns we’ve seen lately. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-comment-on-the-cesario-modding/529153/152 "2010-02-22T15:04:21Z")
Regardless of your inclarity (for the record, I thought you were demanding \*\*AT \*\*be banned as well), where do you get the argument that if unapologetic-pedophile-\*\*Cesario \*\*would have been banned earlier, mind-numbingly-misguided-\*\*Arget Towers \*\*wouldn’t have still been mind-numbingly misguided in his actions? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-comment-on-the-cesario-modding/529153/153 "2010-02-22T15:56:43Z")
It’s not an argument, it’s an opinion. I believe if they had acted swiftly and forcefully, when the community was begging them to act, AT would have thought better of the action that produced the later meltdown. At the very least, he would have had the discretion to not make it public knowledge. Which would also have avoided the meltdown. I saw yet another poster, dancing up to that line, a community yet again calling for modding, met with modding that began, “not this again”. I was calling for them to be more forceful. I think a little swift and forceful modding, from time to time, would cease the endless dancing up to the line of what is/is not allowed. Why not make an example of the poster the community is begging you to sanction? © I feel they missed an opportunity to act swiftly and forcefully. I also think it’s a mistake to assume everyone knows that the word ‘hammer’ = banning, it’s a large community, not everyone will be ‘in the know’ on the subtext. Clearly, that thread, was the wrong time and place to express that opinion, but I was seeing cause and effect. I’m sorry I did not make myself clearer. I don’t know how else I can say it, or how many more times I need to. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-comment-on-the-cesario-modding/529153/154 "2010-02-22T16:33:34Z")
Fuck the hammer/banner shit. I just do not see any connection between the two – \*\*Cesario’s \*\*trolling, and \*\*Argent’s \*\*brain fart. If \*\*Cesario \*\*would have been hung by his thumbs from the public square, \*\*Argent \*\*probably still would have pulled of his particularly stupid move. Unless you’re intimating that \*\*Argent \*\*and \*\*Cesario \*\*are birds of a feather … which I don’t think is true. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-comment-on-the-cesario-modding/529153/155 "2010-02-22T16:51:15Z")
It was my opinion only, sigh. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-comment-on-the-cesario-modding/529153/156 "2010-02-22T17:26:41Z")
**elbows** , thank you for clarifying your intent. In retrospect, I can see how what you said applies to what you meant. I suppose “the hammer” could mean _the hammer of moderation_, i.e. taking action, using the “Don’t be a jerk” rule more liberally, etc. I don’t think that the **Argent Towers** issue was in any way related to the **Cesario** issue. **Argent Towers** was completely clueless about how his actions could be interpreted, so even if he thought the mods would drop people at the first infraction, he probably still would have done what he did because he didn’t think there was anything wrong with it. He certainly didn’t think himself as having any motivations like Cesario, so there was no reason in his mind to link his suggesting reading to Cesario’s issues. He wasn’t suggesting the reading _as porn_, but as extreme topics to broaden perspective and provoke thought. He doesn’t think of the work _as porn_, but as a violent and disgusting story to examine the power (or lack thereof) of words.\* **Zoe** said: > [@](#): > > But you were putting words in **elbow’s** mouth when you inferred that 'banning" was implied when it was not. You are correct that that idiom isn’t quite as strict as I was taking it. Mistakenly paraphrasing someone is “putting words in their mouth”. I was going by **elbows** ’s contextual use that implied something more along the lines of a misquote. > [@](#): > > Now, kindly retract the words you attributed to me, which, I never said. Man up. Those words were _not_ attributed to **elbows** , only the sentiments. **Zoe** said: > [@](#): > > Another possibility would have been to seek clarification on the original post by **elbows** before posting that “the hammer” meant banning. Certainly miscommunication requires two people. Flipside to your comment, how does a person know they need to seek clarification when they think they understand what the other person meant? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-comment-on-the-cesario-modding/529153/157 "2010-02-22T20:43:34Z")
Irishman, his explanantion still doesn’t cut it if you go past the initial hammer post and read further. > [@elbows](#): > > I saw yet another poster, dancing up to that line, a community yet again calling for modding, met with modding that began, “not this again”. I was calling for them to be more forceful. Yes, it started with “not this again”\* but read the entire warning: > [@Argent Towers, a moment of your time.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/169): > > \*t’s a clear violation of the “don’t be a jerk” rule, which I can see we’re going to have to start applying more liberally. So here’s a formal warning: if you ever do anything so breathtakingly irresponsible again, or violate any other SDMB rules, or just generally behave like an idiot, you’ll be banned without further notice. You respond with: > [@Argent Towers, a moment of your time.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/179): > > OOOOh a warning! That’ll show him! > > Christ on a stick, are you deaf man? So the only reasonable assumption is that what seems IMHO be a swift and strong warning was not enough for you in the specific case of Argent Towers. Tell me what would have been a more hammer-like response that doesn’t include a banning? Were you calling for a suspension? \*I’ll note that by your definition you are “lying” about what Ed said, as his actual words were “I swear, it’s one fricking thing after another.” ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-comment-on-the-cesario-modding/529153/158 "2010-02-22T22:26:31Z")
You know the more I think about it, the more it seems clear that this was not really a misunderstanding, at least not the straightforward one. elbows was calling for more forceful moderation as he saw another poster dance up to the same line, but now he is saying “but I didn’t mean I wanted more forceful moderation on this particular poster who was dancing up to the line, umm he’s just what reminded me of the general idea” (that’s a paraphrase, dude) So what I misunderstood was elbows’ level of conviction to his stated opinion. I seriously overestimated it. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-comment-on-the-cesario-modding/529153/159 "2010-02-22T23:23:45Z")
Seriously, dudes, I’m out. I’m just repeating myself now. Believe whatever you like. I can live with being the only one who understood what I was trying to say, truly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-comment-on-the-cesario-modding/529153.md?page=7)