# A conservative in a liberal domain? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 13, 2016, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-conservative-in-a-liberal-domain/752056 "2016-04-13T02:39:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-conservative-in-a-liberal-domain/752056/81 "2016-04-14T21:58:05Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > Don’t most people? If by “most” you mean “more than 50%” then the answer is, just barely. I think about 55% of Americans pay federal income tax these days. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-conservative-in-a-liberal-domain/752056/82 "2016-04-14T23:30:35Z")
> [@The\_Niply\_Elder](#): > > :rolleyes: > Already addressed. Please try to catch up to the conversation. Young people don’t read magazines much less be arsed to participate in political surveys. Your personal opinion doesn’t count. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-conservative-in-a-liberal-domain/752056/83 "2016-04-14T23:34:45Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > If by “most” you mean “more than 50%” then the answer is, just barely. I think about 55% of Americans pay federal income tax these days. Federal income tax is not the only kind of tax. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-conservative-in-a-liberal-domain/752056/84 "2016-04-15T00:01:19Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > I would think doctors would skew liberal because of science, but most doctors I’ve known tend to be Republicans. I know a vet who doesn’t “believe” in evolution. Doctors study some basic science, but very few are actually scientists. There’s a big difference. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-conservative-in-a-liberal-domain/752056/85 "2016-04-15T00:28:02Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > I’ve been an engineer for many years, and in my experience, the vast majority of engineers are quite conservative. I think it’s because engineers have to focus on the world as it is, shun wishful thinking, and embrace reality as they create practical and useful solutions to problems. No starry-eyed dreaming or wishing allowed. I don’t know if living/working as an engineer leads to that attitude, or having that attitude is a prerequisite to becoming an engineer, but either way it seems to explain why most engineers would be conservative. > > As for professions with mostly liberals but a few conservatives sneak in, how about Hollywood? It seems that most actors/directors are liberals, with the notable exceptions of action stars (Stallone, Norris, Schwarzenegger, Eastwood, etc.). Saw this on an engineer’s desk the other day “science without engineering is just philosophy.” ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-conservative-in-a-liberal-domain/752056/86 "2016-04-15T00:30:52Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > Some of the amateur musician circles I frequent are noticeably left-leaning, complete with songs and statements that suggest they blithely assume everyone there shares their political views\*. But a few of us, including me sometimes, don’t. > > \*How can you possibly sing folk music and not be a liberal? OMG! I attended a jazz concert a couple of months ago (an unusual thing for me, as I’m more of a classical music guy). During her between-song patter, a vocalist slipped in a quick “Go Bernie!” and the audience erupted in applause and cheers (except for me; I’m a Hillary supporter, and I’ve learned to keep quiet about it when I’m around my artsy friends). My experience is that folkies tend to be intensely political, jazz types somewhat less so, and classical musicians vary from mildly leftish to apolitical. The classical nerds also dress badly, drive funny-looking cars, and think Gilbert and Sullivan operettas are way more hilarious than that foul-mouthed Amy Schumer person everyone’s talking about, but that’s a topic for another thread. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-conservative-in-a-liberal-domain/752056/87 "2016-04-15T00:40:37Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > > [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > > > If by “most” you mean “more than 50%” then the answer is, just barely. I think about 55% of Americans pay federal income tax these days. > > Federal income tax is not the only kind of tax. It’s not even the only kind of Federal tax levied on personal income. ---
**Author:** ![jsquire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@jsquire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsquire)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-conservative-in-a-liberal-domain/752056/88 "2016-04-15T01:41:47Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > In my experience, public-school teacher in most places. Speaking as one myself, in my experience teachers trend more liberal than the population at large but not tremendously so. More than anything, a lot of teachers are just weird. The other thing is that people act like liberal/conservative is neatly defined, and it isn’t. The guy who teaches across the hall from me fits most stereotypical definitions of conservative, until you get to economics in general and unions in particular. Then he sounds like if Bernie Sanders spoke like Samuel L. Jackson. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Niply\_Elder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8e8cbc/32.png) [@The\_Niply\_Elder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Niply_Elder)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-conservative-in-a-liberal-domain/752056/89 "2016-04-15T03:34:11Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > Do you have proof that young people not only won’t participate in surveys but that they’re universally liberal, especially engineers? Strawman much? I didn’t say universally liberal, I said political leaning and age is highly correlated. See here: > **[Party Identification Varies Widely Across the Age Spectrum](https://news.gallup.com/poll/172439/party-identification-varies-widely-across-age-spectrum.aspx)** > > Democratic identification is highest among young Americans and older baby boomers, while Republicans do best among middle-aged Americans and seniors. Young Americans are most likely to identify as independents. > **[A Deep Dive Into Party Affiliation](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2015/04/07/a-deep-dive-into-party-affiliation/)** > > 39% of Americans identify as independents, more than they do as Democrats ( 32%) or as Republicans (23%). This is the highest percentage of independents in more than 75 years of public opinion polling. > [@drewder](#): > > …Far more liberals in my experience are anti-vaxers, I don’t doubt that but notice for example that one of the biggest antivaxing hotbeds is Orange County right outside LA, which is super conservative. > [@drewder](#): > > I don’t think there is a direct correlation between a belief in a higher being and hating science. Do you have evidence to support the idea that religious people can’t be scientists? No, but there’s this: > **[Top 15 Quotes By Famous Atheists - Listverse](https://listverse.com/2007/12/07/top-15-quotes-by-famous-atheists/)** > > Following our list of quotes from St Thomas Aquinas, this is the second in our series of famous quotes from great atheists and great religious minds. Here > [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > I’ve been an engineer for many years, and in my experience, the vast majority of engineers are quite conservative. I think it’s because engineers have to focus on the world as it is, shun wishful thinking, and embrace reality as they create practical and useful solutions to problems. No starry-eyed dreaming or wishing allowed. I don’t know if living/working as an engineer leads to that attitude, or having that attitude is a prerequisite to becoming an engineer, but either way it seems to explain why most engineers would be conservative. > > As for professions with mostly liberals but a few conservatives sneak in, how about Hollywood? It seems that most actors/directors are liberals, with the notable exceptions of action stars (Stallone, Norris, Schwarzenegger, Eastwood, etc.). That’s a nice anecdote but does not follow the general trend. Browse down to Engineer and see the breakdown. > **[Democratic vs. Republican occupations](https://verdantlabs.com/politics_of_professions/)** > > Most librarians are Democrats. Most farmers are Republicans. Pediatricians lean left, urologists right. On a personal opinion note, I’d say I have to strongly disagree with you. Engineering definitely requires “starry eyed dreaming and wishing”. Otherwise what motivates you to design something new? What keeps successful businesses on top are forward-thinking individuals who create the next market by envisioning it and implementing it through execution of scientific and mathematical concepts and rules. Time-honored engineering philosophy of kaizen (continuous improvement), is precisely what Progressivism is all about. If in fact we could have even more kaizen in our political system, we’d be unstoppable (as a country). Your personal experience in this most definitely reflects an age phenomenon, ie you are an older individual who have older co-workers in an industry that got whacked by externalities (globalization), so the natural psychological reaction is to turn curt and conservative, instead of punching back. Conservativism and religiosity are highly correlated and the whole motivation for conservatives to participate in our political process is to turn society back to what it was in the copper era when the majority of religious texts and concepts were canonized. Frankly as an engineer myself, I never aspire to build the next ground-breaking pyramid or whatever. > [@Magiver](#): > > Your personal opinion doesn’t count. Oh no? Given that this is IMHO, I’m going to introduce you to my little friend: > **[Freedom of speech in the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_in_the_United_States)** > > In the United States, freedom of speech and expression is strongly protected from government restrictions by the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, many state constitutions, and state and federal laws. Freedom of speech, also called free speech, means the free and public expression of opinions without censorship, interference and restraint by the government The term "freedom of speech" embedded in the First Amendment encompasses the decision what to say as well as what not to The Fi... ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-conservative-in-a-liberal-domain/752056/90 "2016-04-15T04:46:33Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > Saw this on an engineer’s desk the other day “science without engineering is just philosophy.” I like the quote (not originated by me) - “Scientists discover what IS… engineers create what never was.” ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-conservative-in-a-liberal-domain/752056/91 "2016-04-15T08:03:59Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > But something like software development (who like to call themselves engineers ;)) would definitely trend liberal, especially in the startup scene. Based on political discussions online, especially during the very early internet (i.e. Usenet) where software engineers were a very large fraction of the participants, I’d say that they strongly trend libertarian. Perhaps not a majority, but certainly a much higher percentage than the general population. I’d say this is an occupational hazard. Libertarian philosophy has always struck me as very black-and-white thinking. Everything either good or bad, little in the way of a middle ground. Just like computers, where everything is either true or false (1 or 0). ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-conservative-in-a-liberal-domain/752056/92 "2016-04-15T11:06:57Z")
I once dated a woman who was a doctor (internal medicine). She said there was a lot of variation in political affiliation in the profession. There’s a divide between surgeons and specialties like internal medicine, family care, etc. Surgeons make more money, are more likely to be male, and tend conservative/Republican (at least on economic issues). In addition, internalists get to know their patients more closely, whereas surgery often is less personal and more like changing a tire on a car. Consequently, surgeons are less likely to favor socialized/universal healthcare than other specialists. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-conservative-in-a-liberal-domain/752056/93 "2016-04-15T13:12:40Z")
With doctors, they trend conservative I think because 1. they go into the profession with an eye for helping others. 2. While they make good money they had to work very long and hard for it 3. Their are many who want to take their money. 4. They see the results of bad decisions. I read that years ago right before AIDS got big it was the gay doctors who were raising concerns about sexual practices in the gay bathhouses and how a disease would quickly spread. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-conservative-in-a-liberal-domain/752056/94 "2016-04-15T14:19:05Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > With doctors, they trend conservative I think because 1. they go into the profession with an eye for helping others. 2. While they make good money they had to work very long and hard for it 3. Their are many who want to take their money. 4. They see the results of bad decisions. Yep, that’s conservatives, always wanting to help others. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-conservative-in-a-liberal-domain/752056/95 "2016-04-15T14:36:00Z")
I’ve run into social conservatives at kink events. I’m not talking about people who don’t like unions or immigration, or do like guns or free trade, I’m talking about people who oppose (whether outright or with the ‘I just don’t see why they need it’) gay marriage and support the various transphobic bathroom bills making the news now. When someone routinely goes to events that make a point of turning restrooms all-gender in rented space if they can but supports genital inspections, birth certificate checks, and appearance enforcement for using the bathroom anywhere else, there’s clearly some cognitive dissonance going on. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-conservative-in-a-liberal-domain/752056/96 "2016-04-15T15:59:51Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Yep, that’s conservatives, always wanting to help others. In my experience, it’s indeed often been conservatives donating or volunteering. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-conservative-in-a-liberal-domain/752056/97 "2016-04-15T20:34:45Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > In my experience, it’s indeed often been conservatives donating or volunteering. YMMV. In my experience, it’s often been liberals too. Wanting to help others is not unique to conservatives. If it were, all the teachers would be conservatives. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-conservative-in-a-liberal-domain/752056.md?page=4)