# a contentious question about hymens **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 8, 2010, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405 "2010-06-08T09:40:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![AllFreedomUnlessDefyingScience](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@AllFreedomUnlessDefyingScience](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllFreedomUnlessDefyingScience)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405/21 "2010-06-08T22:25:28Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > If you are leading up to suggesting that doctors break girls’ hymens in order to improve their first sexual experience, I don’t, honestly, think that would make that big of a difference. Not possessing a hymen myself I don’t know that my opinion has any validity at all. In addition, I have never been with a virgin (something my biased sample has reinforced as a tendency until now I’m old enough that it’s a completely moot point) so my knowledge of the process is all ‘second hand’ even from the male perspective. I do know that of the women who related details of their first sexual experience to me, I think even the ones I hate they deserved a better experience. ---
**Author:** ![AllFreedomUnlessDefyingScience](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@AllFreedomUnlessDefyingScience](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllFreedomUnlessDefyingScience)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405/22 "2010-06-08T22:28:03Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > If you are seriously claiming to have had sex with (around 50) virgins, I think you must have started when you (and they) were around ten years old. In other words, I don’t believe you. No, that wasn’t what I meant. As someone says later, I have knowledge of this from women who told me about their first experience. Most of them were not even my lover, just a good friend, relative, or someone else who shared a confidence with me. ---
**Author:** ![AllFreedomUnlessDefyingScience](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@AllFreedomUnlessDefyingScience](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllFreedomUnlessDefyingScience)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405/23 "2010-06-08T22:34:31Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > I don’t know that my friends and I ever discussed the hymen breaking part very specifically, but we’ve certainly shared stories about our first times, and most of them were pretty “meh”. A few were downright horrific, but those were the rapes, so I don’t think it was the hymen so much as the force and terror of rape. I realized I wasn’t reporting my (anecdotal data) correctly. For about 10 of the women in my sample, rape (in a non-statutory sense) was involved in losing their virginity, while I’m sure some small part of the experience was about physical pain it was really about rape. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405/24 "2010-06-08T22:37:58Z")
> [@AllFreedomUnlessDefyingScience](#): > > I do know that of the women who related details of their first sexual experience to me, I think even the ones I hate they deserved a better experience. 1. Pre-breaking the hymen (if that is what you are getting at) won’t help. 2. It’s not that big of a deal. The first time you have sex is romanticized by cultures that value female chastity, but it really isn’t the end all be all experience of a lifetime, nor is it a tragedy if that first experience is mediocre, or more farce than drama. Growing up is a _process_ and an evolution, not a magic moment of crossing a threshold. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405/25 "2010-06-08T22:40:07Z")
> [@AFUDS](#): > > I do know that of the women who related details of their first sexual experience to me, I think even the ones I hate they deserved a better experience. Well, IME most women (at least, educated and fairly well-socialized women with a reasonable knowledge of the facts of life) are pretty much prepared not to expect too much from their first experience of intercourse. It’s more a rite of passage than a glorious physical fulfillment, and if you’re lucky the glorious physical fulfillment eventually manifests itself later on. And I can’t help wondering: why the hell are women you hate telling you about the details of their first sexual experience? ---
**Author:** ![AllFreedomUnlessDefyingScience](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@AllFreedomUnlessDefyingScience](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllFreedomUnlessDefyingScience)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405/26 "2010-06-08T22:46:08Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > 1. Pre-breaking the hymen (if that is what you are getting at) won’t help. > > 2. It’s not that big of a deal. The first time you have sex is romanticized by cultures that value female chastity, but it really isn’t the end all be all experience of a lifetime, nor is it a tragedy if that first experience is mediocre, or more farce than drama. Growing up is a _process_ and an evolution, not a magic moment of crossing a threshold. As I said, I don’t think this is something I’m anatomically equipped to have a opinion about that is more than abstract. I admit I considered that as an idea, but my only real valid opinion on this point is: Based on what women have told me they deserve better than they get. I think it is a big deal, or it was to the majority of women who discussed the matter with me. In many cases they discussed the event decades later and still seemed pained by it. Perhaps I attract damaged women however, biasing my sample. ---
**Author:** ![AllFreedomUnlessDefyingScience](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@AllFreedomUnlessDefyingScience](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllFreedomUnlessDefyingScience)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405/27 "2010-06-08T22:47:56Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > And I can’t help wondering: why the hell are women you hate telling you about the details of their first sexual experience? Women I hate NOW. I have an ex-wife. I have former lovers who done me wrong IMHO of course. ---
**Author:** ![Fair\_Rarity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fair_rarity/32/153_2.png) [@Fair\_Rarity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fair_Rarity)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405/28 "2010-06-09T00:10:28Z")
No pain, no blood, no real discomfort. Did a lot of horseback and bike riding growing up, but didn’t use tampons. Didn’t worry too much about it bleeding as I assumed (correctly) that it was long gone. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405/29 "2010-06-09T19:16:10Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Well, you may not know as much as you think you do. The hymen can be somewhat elastic and can be perforated without totally tearing, and different kinds of penetration can have different results. The old “why is virginity like a balloon, one prick and it’s gone” joke may be how a lot of guys imagine the piercing of the hymen, but it isn’t necessarily accurate. > > I remember that the first time I used a tampon I tore my hymen and it hurt, and then the first time I had intercourse it tore again, and bled considerably. Hell, some women have actually had repeated intercourse and become pregnant without having the hymen fully opened until the baby’s head comes down the birth canal. > > So I don’t think you have any _a priori_ reason to assume that a woman is lying to you about her hymen just because **you** think “she should not have hurt”. She was a really nice lady, but naive and shy and only one somewhat serious bf before me - so i have no reason to believe she was lying about the “save” part. Just the physical obstruction still there part… Just curious - from what little I know of medical exams (other than the joke that they keep the speculum in ice water) how does the doctor manage without serious stretching/tearing? ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405/30 "2010-06-09T19:51:12Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Just curious - from what little I know of medical exams (other than the joke that they keep the speculum in ice water) how does the doctor manage without serious stretching/tearing? I can’t really answer that, but I would say this. In general, women don’t get their first pap smear until age 18 or until after first intercourse. In my experience, many don’t get their first girly exams until they want to go get birth control (almost no birth control, aside from condoms, is available to women without a pelvic exam first). In my case, and in the cases of most of the girls I went to college with, that first pelvic came long after the first sex. I think I heard or read, however, that if you tell a Doc in advance that you’re a virgin, they can use a smaller diameter speculum to avoid breaking the hymen. I don’t think it’s a one-size-fits-all sort of instrument. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405/31 "2010-06-09T20:04:48Z")
I just wanted to add my data point - it didn’t hurt at all, there was no blood, and the whole thing was very meh. I know women talk about their first time but honestly I have very few memories of it since it didn’t stick in my head at all. Sex did not really become truly enjoyable until later. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405/32 "2010-06-09T20:51:17Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > In my experience, many don’t get their first girly exams until they want to go get birth control [snip] In my case, and in the cases of most of the girls I went to college with, that first pelvic came long after the first sex. Same here. Before I was sexually active, I just didn’t see the point. ---
**Author:** ![congodwarf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@congodwarf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/congodwarf)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405/33 "2010-06-09T20:54:58Z")
I used tampons for 8 years and had my first pelvic exam before I started having sex. That said, in spite of the tampons, the pelvic exam, and my boyfriend’s embarrassingly small penis, it still hurt like hell and bled - for about 30 seconds. After that, it was boring and pointless. Size is not important - unless your dick is smaller than a super size tampon. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405/34 "2010-06-09T22:00:58Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Just curious - from what little I know of medical exams (other than the joke that they keep the speculum in ice water) how does the doctor manage without serious stretching/tearing? The hymen is not generally a solid membrane of tissue, it’s got holes in it. Sometimes big holes. Inserting a speculum is done pretty gently, and it can often fit through one of the holes in the hymen. As the speculum is opened, the tissue is temporarily stretched a bit and pushed to the walls of the vagina, allowing a clear view for the doctor. When the speculum is reduced and withdrawn, the hymen goes back to normal. I’ve heard of a couple of cases where the hymen was actually solid, and girls didn’t get their periods as expected. The menstrual fluid was blocked by the hymen and couldn’t exit. A little snip of the hymen and normal menstruation began. But this isn’t common. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405/35 "2010-06-10T02:20:36Z")
Odd that, as a normal piece of tissue, it doesn’t just heal back up. What the hell is it there for anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405/36 "2010-06-10T02:35:35Z")
> [@Rysdad](#): > > Odd that, as a normal piece of tissue, it doesn’t just heal back up. > > What the hell is it there for anyway? The [Master addressed this question](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/919/what-is-the-purpose-of-the-hymen), but didn’t get very far with it. It’s possible that it protects the vagina in some way, perhaps in a way that served more of a purpose for naked children sitting on the ground farther back in our evolutionary history, but I don’t think anybody really knows “what it’s there for”. The hymen tissue is pretty thin and delicate in most cases, and repeated friction from intercourse, vigorous motion due to exercise, tampon use, etc. doesn’t just tear it but actually erodes it away over time. Its outer edges generally remain as small ridges on the vaginal walls. ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405/37 "2010-06-10T02:37:06Z")
I wasn’t that het up about my first time, emotionally, but my hymen hadn’t ever been stretched at all, and it was quite painful (not much blood though). That was the only bad part although my first sexual experiences weren’t very exciting or pleasurable. My main thought was ‘wow, sex isn’t a big deal at all - good to know’. Vaginal penetration was varying degrees of uncomfortable (too tight a fit and burning-type pain around the opening) for months after that, which sucked because I was really hitting my stride and wanted to be able to enjoy it all, dammit! It can be a long process of stretching, minor tearing, and healing - for some. I assumed the first time would hurt. The only alternative was stretching myself by myself, and I didn’t want to. [Various types of hymen](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Hymen_en.svg) ETA: At 25 after 6 years of very regular sex, I still have pieces of hymen left that I can feel, and see (with a mirror of course). I assume I had one with a smaller opening/s than usual, since it took so long to break in. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405/38 "2010-06-10T02:40:11Z")
> [@Rysdad](#): > > What the hell is it there for anyway? We have no idea. Seriously…I’ve never even heard a scientific hypothesis for it, much less anything approaching a likely theory. The internet answer is “to protect the vagina during childhood”, but that’s patently silly, as the holes in the hymen certainly allow bacteria, small particles like sand and such in there as much as an absent hymen does, and it doesn’t stop larger items like penises and fenceposts. But if you’d like the embryology, the hymen is made after the vagina, from embryonic tissue called sinovaginal bulbs, part of the müllerian ducts which form the vagina itself. The holes form after the hymen - that is, the vagina forms first, then the hymen during the second trimester, then the holes in the hymen appear before birth. The hymen is pretty thick and large in newborn baby girls, often forming folds and sometimes protruding from the vaginal opening. It stays thick because of hormones the girl’s body makes until about age 4. Then it starts to thin out and the opening(s) in the hymen enlarge, approximately 1 mm each year. (Which means the later you put off first intercourse, the less likely it is to hurt. The hymen may effectively disappear with age all on its own.) ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405/39 "2010-06-10T02:54:39Z")
For me, I don’t think it was the hymen that hurt so much as it was having something in my vagina for the first time. It hurt a few times until I got used to it. ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405/40 "2010-06-10T03:58:35Z")
I wonder if the hymen has anything to do with males only wanting to breed with females who’ve never bred with other males. Like a male lion who takes over a pride will kill all the cubs so that only his genes are spread. Just a thought anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405.md?page=3)