# a contentious question about hymens **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 8, 2010, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405 "2010-06-08T09:40:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405/41 "2010-06-10T04:22:53Z")
> [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > I wonder if the hymen has anything to do with males only wanting to breed with females who’ve never bred with other males. As Cecil points out in the column I linked to above, though, other animals including horses, moles and hyenas also retain the hymen in females up to sexual maturity, and there’s no evidence that males of those species prefer virgin females. In fact, a sexual partner who **has** successfully bred with another partner is to some extent a better bet in reproductive terms than a virgin is, because she’s proved she’s fertile. (And in pair-bonding species, there’s a good chance that she’ll have a committed mate who will help support your offspring and increase their chances of survival, while you remain free to keep sowing your seed elsewhere.) ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405/42 "2010-06-10T05:11:45Z")
> [@rhubarbarin](#): > > [Various types of hymen](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Hymen_en.svg) Sorry, but when I opened this, all I could think was “AAAH! Screaming aliens!” ---
**Author:** ![AllFreedomUnlessDefyingScience](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@AllFreedomUnlessDefyingScience](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllFreedomUnlessDefyingScience)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405/43 "2010-06-15T02:07:56Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > As Cecil points out in the column I linked to above, though, other animals including horses, moles and hyenas also retain the hymen in females up to sexual maturity, and there’s no evidence that males of those species prefer virgin females. > > In fact, a sexual partner who **has** successfully bred with another partner is to some extent a better bet in reproductive terms than a virgin is, because she’s proved she’s fertile. (And in pair-bonding species, there’s a good chance that she’ll have a committed mate who will help support your offspring and increase their chances of survival, while you remain free to keep sowing your seed elsewhere.) While I won’t disagree with Unca Cecil, the big difference is that we are the only ones possessing inteligence when it comes to hymens. Unlike animals we may be able to make a rational leap to Virginity=any offspring will have to be mine they can’t. That said, the connection between babies and sex in difficult and possibly impossible to pinpoint in human (and potentially early hominid) development so it’s hard to evaluate how much effect this would have. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405/44 "2010-06-15T02:53:36Z")
There doesn’t need to be an evolutionary reason _to_ have a structure. There just needs to be insufficient selection pressure _against_ it. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405/45 "2010-06-15T19:34:46Z")
Well, I have a story that’s gonna blow yer mind!! I lost my virginity at 18. A bit of a pinch. No blood, no real pain. Here’s the totally awesome part: Then intercourse for about a half an hour (painfree) ending in _mutual orgasm_. Losing my viriginity _rocked._😃 ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405/46 "2010-06-15T19:48:53Z")
> [@niblet\_head](#): > > I lost my virginity at 18. A bit of a pinch. No blood, no real pain. > > Here’s the totally awesome part: Then intercourse for about a half an hour (painfree) ending in _mutual orgasm_. Uh huh. And I bet you rode to the bed on the back of a kraken, and the condoms were pulled out of a leprechaun’s pot, and at the moment of orgasm, a million dollars shot out of your ass. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405/47 "2010-06-15T19:53:25Z")
FWIW any time I go more than a couple of weeks without sex, it is uncomfortable the first time (and I’ve been with irishfella for nearly 9 years, so this isn’t about technique or size or anything like that). Our “first time” after the birth of irishbaby (by c-section) was therefore somewhat less pleasant than I had hoped. Just for a second or two, then it’s all good. So I think it really isn’t much to do with the hymen at all, but about things getting used to being stretched more than they are used to (and clearly some women “snap back” pretty quickly). ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405/48 "2010-06-15T20:01:17Z")
> [@irishgirl](#): > > FWIW any time I go more than a couple of weeks without sex, it is uncomfortable the first time (and I’ve been with irishfella for nearly 9 years, so this isn’t about technique or size or anything like that). > > Our “first time” after the birth of irishbaby (by c-section) was therefore somewhat less pleasant than I had hoped. Just for a second or two, then it’s all good. > > So I think it really isn’t much to do with the hymen at all, but about things getting used to being stretched more than they are used to (and clearly some women “snap back” pretty quickly). Of course. And (as I’m sure you know, but some readers may not), the hormones produced after childbirth tighten up the vagina, even if it hasn’t been stretched out with a vaginal birth. Post c-section sex can be…intense. “Uncomfortable”, in doctor speak. 😉 (“Painful” to the rest of us!) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405/49 "2010-06-15T20:09:40Z")
> [@AFUDS](#): > > Unlike animals we may be able to make a rational leap to Virginity=any offspring will have to be mine Except that that “rational leap” is a false inference. It’s perfectly possible to impregnate a woman without breaking her hymen. And as you note, in humans the connection between sex and babies isn’t necessarily obvious anyway. AFAIK, we have no evidence for thinking that the human retention of the hymen was in any way due to sexual selection pressures (i.e., there’s no evidence that early hominid males preferred sex partners with intact hymens). ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405/50 "2010-06-15T20:13:16Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Except that that “rational leap” is a false inference. It’s perfectly possible to impregnate a woman without breaking her hymen. It is? Theoretically possible, I grant you, but perfectly possible? Aren’t too many literal virgin mothers out there. That’s a LONG journey for a sperm if it isn’t deposited right at the cervix. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405/51 "2010-06-15T20:34:22Z")
> [@irishgirl](#): > > FWIW any time I go more than a couple of weeks without sex, it is uncomfortable the first time (and I’ve been with irishfella for nearly 9 years, so this isn’t about technique or size or anything like that). [snip] So I think it really isn’t much to do with the hymen at all, but about things getting used to being stretched more than they are used to (and clearly some women “snap back” pretty quickly). I disagree. The pain I had the first time I had PIV sex was definitely from the hymen tearing; I haven’t felt anything else like it before or since. Also, I don’t experience anything like what you report (sex being uncomfortable after going without for a while). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-contentious-question-about-hymens/542405.md?page=2)