# A couple is arguing, the woman is crying & the man is cursing her. Do you intervene? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 25, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340 "2009-04-25T19:37:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/21 "2009-04-26T01:11:17Z")
I would stay out of it unless he threatened her with harm. Then I would call the police. It’s not as though she were a child. A woman can get up and walk away or ask for help. > [@](#): > > **]Der Trihs**: It’s not like no woman in history has ever screwed up bad enough to provoke even a reasonable man into cursing at her. No way. She is responsible for screwing up (if she did), but he is responsible for cursing at her. Don’t play any of this “see what she made him do” silliness. > [@](#): > > **Der Trihs** : But it’s NOT a “fact” that men are overwhelming the perpetrators - they are approximately equal. Cite? > [@](#): > > Men are more likely to be accused and convicted, but that’s mostly due to sexism in the law… Cite? > [@](#): > > …\women will go for a weapon before a man will. Cite? If this was merely a matter of your opinion, I wouldn’t bother to question. But you are claiming that these are facts. I think that you are outrageously wrong. I realize that there are women who abuse men physically. But I don’t think that that abuse is equal ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/22 "2009-04-26T01:20:19Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > It sure does matter what the gender of the parties is. Forgetting for just a minute the typical physical differences between a man and woman and focusing on the simple fact that men _ **overwhelmingly** _ are the perpetrators, rather then the victims of domestic violence, it seems obvious to me that a woman generally has more to fear from a man that a man has to fear from a woman. I’d like to see a cite for that. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/23 "2009-04-26T01:24:51Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > But it’s NOT a “fact” that men are overwhelming the perpetrators - they are approximately equal. Men are more likely to be accused and convicted, but that’s mostly due to sexism in the law, and the unwillingness of men to complain. And the fact that women aren’t as strong just means that women will go for a weapon before a man will. Women are less muscular, not stupid. Of course there is no way to know for sure because, as you say, men are less likely to report violence but I absolutely do not believe that they are even close to being equal let alone approximately. Men are far more likely to commit violent crimes period, so why should it be different for domestic crimes? [85-95% of all domestic violence victims are female](http://www.aidv-usa.com/statistics.htm) Like I said, I know that statistic can’t be 100% accurate because of reporting issues, but I fail to see how your comment about women going for a weapon before a man will is true and the statistics (check out the US Department of Justice’s website for a lot of info) don’t show that to be true, either. Men are far more likely (statistics vary on several websites from 4 to 6 times more likely) to kill their partner than women. If women were grabbing weapons as you allude to, I think it would be pretty hard for the police to ignore his injuries. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/24 "2009-04-26T01:39:24Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > I would stay out of it unless he threatened her with harm. Then I would call the police. It’s not as though she were a child. A woman can get up and walk away or ask for help. > > No way. She is responsible for screwing up (if she did), but he is responsible for cursing at her. Don’t play any of this “see what she made him do” silliness. > > Cite? > > Cite? > > Cite? > > If this was merely a matter of your opinion, I wouldn’t bother to question. But you are claiming that these are facts. I think that you are outrageously wrong. I realize that there are women who abuse men physically. But I don’t think that that abuse is equal There have been several threads on this topic. The upshot (IIRC) is that [percentage-wise](http://www.patienteducationcenter.org/aspx/HealthELibrary/HealthETopic.aspx?cid=M0907d), to the extent you can quantify it, women do indeed instigate about as much physical domestic violence as men, but (assuming weapons are not being used) the physical disparities (on average) between men and women generally mean the woman is getting injured more often, and more seriously than the man in these altercations, and women will make up the vast majority or reported domestic abuse victims. Women who are angry, or pissed off, or drunk, or frustrated lash out all the time in real life. Children getting violently beaten by their mothers or grandmothers etc. is staple of many people’s real world life histories. I’ve always been puzzled by people who can’t understand (or don’t believe) that women are quite often just as aggressive as men. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/25 "2009-04-26T01:47:26Z")
> [@astro](#): > > There have been several threads on this topic. The upshot (IIRC) is that [percentage-wise](http://www.patienteducationcenter.org/aspx/HealthELibrary/HealthETopic.aspx?cid=M0907d), to the extent you can quantify it, women do indeed instigate about as much physical domestic violence as men, but (assuming weapons are not being used) the physical disparities (on average) between men and women generally mean the woman is getting injured more often, and more seriously than the man in these altercations, and women will make up the vast majority or reported domestic abuse victims. > > Women who are angry, or pissed off, or drunk, or frustrated lash out all the time in real life. Children getting violently beaten by their mothers or grandmothers etc. is staple of many people’s real world life histories. I’ve always been puzzled by people who can’t understand (or don’t believe) that women are quite often just as aggressive as men. You’re quoting a statistic from a voluntary questionnaire of 11,000 people to prove this point? Again, I’m not denying that men are often assaulted by women. I believe wholeheartedly that it happens far more than reported, but a poll of 11,000 people does not a fact make. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/26 "2009-04-26T01:54:25Z")
I smell a classic SDMB PC absurdity coming on… I remember when I was a SDMB newbie a surreal thread where the PC crowd was trying to make the claim that the Jews had little to do with the death of Jesus. This smells of the same absurdity. If you want to make the case that women are capable of being argumentative, I say ‘meh.’ OTOH, if you’re trying to make the case that a man faces anything more than an _ **infinitesimally** _ larger risk of _ **harm** _ from a woman vs the _ **actual** _ incidence of violence that women regularly experience at the hands of men, I’d say you’re delusional. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/27 "2009-04-26T02:01:13Z")
**Sleeps With Butterflies** , thanks for that cite, although I’m hard pressed to believe that anyone older than 25 with a pulse wouldn’t know this _ **intuitively** _ simply from being conscious. Other facts from your cite: \*\*85-95% of all domestic violence victims are female. Over 500,00 women are stalked by an intimate partner each year. 5.3 million women are abused each year. 1,232 women are killed each year by an intimate partner. Domestic violence is the leading cause of injury to women. Women are more likely to be attacked by someone they know rather than by a stranger.\*\* As disturbing as this is, I would venture that a tiny portion of men experience anything like this, vis a vis women. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/28 "2009-04-26T02:06:32Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > You’re quoting a statistic from a voluntary questionnaire of 11,000 people to prove this point? Again, I’m not denying that men are often assaulted by women. I believe wholeheartedly that it happens far more than reported, but a poll of 11,000 people does not a fact make. Doesn’t real life matter? Why is there this puzzling pretense that lots of women don’t become violent and belligerent just like men do when angry or frustrated or drunk. Women are usually going to be far more prone to being injured in altercations, and if injured are far more prone to report injuries to the authorities than men are. Physical abuse should never be tolerated but pretending that percentage-wise it’s unilaterally overwhelmingly perpetrated by men on women is absurd to anyone who views the way men and women in relationships live under stress in the real world.. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/29 "2009-04-26T02:18:10Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Doesn’t real life matter? Why is there this puzzling pretense that lots of women don’t become violent and belligerent just like men do when angry or frustrated or drunk. Women are usually going to be far more prone to being injured in altercations, and if injured are far more prone to report injuries to the authorities than men are. Physical abuse should never be tolerated but pretending that percentage-wise it’s unilaterally overwhelmingly perpetrated by men on women is absurd to anyone who views the way men and women in relationships live under stress in the real world.. In the real world I live in, men are exponentially more likely to work through conflict with violence than women are. _ **Exponentially.** _ I have _never_ known a man who was injured by a woman. I have known women who were argumentative, and confrontational and instigators. I’ve known women who would----as an example----throw things when they were angry. Is that an example of domestic violence? I suppose so, yes. In real life, however-----in practical terms-----the “violence” experienced by men at the women, _ **pales** _ in comparison to the violence suffered by women at the hands of men. **It’s not even close.** ---
**Author:** ![Rebo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rebo/32/13005_2.png) [@Rebo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rebo)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/30 "2009-04-26T02:24:32Z")
Have y’all seen [this show](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlFAd4YdQks&feature=related)? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/31 "2009-04-26T02:27:16Z")
I have personally intervened in this situation. I would do it again. I hate assholes who abuse women. It’s one of my buttons. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/32 "2009-04-26T02:29:25Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Doesn’t real life matter? Why is there this puzzling pretense that lots of women don’t become violent and belligerent just like men do when angry or frustrated or drunk. Women are usually going to be far more prone to being injured in altercations, and if injured are far more prone to report injuries to the authorities than men are. Physical abuse should never be tolerated but pretending that percentage-wise it’s unilaterally overwhelmingly perpetrated by men on women is absurd to anyone who views the way men and women in relationships live under stress in the real world.. As to your OP, if the woman was the aggressor, and I perceived he was in danger of being hurt, I would monitor/ call the police and intervene only if there was violence. Admittedly, I would be less likely to perceive this risk, unless it was super evident,; in part because my life experience is those situations are most likely with the ‘man as aggressor.’ ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/33 "2009-04-26T02:31:25Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I have personally intervened in this situation. I would do it again. I hate assholes who abuse women. It’s one of my buttons. I agree with you 100%. I would be more likely to monitor the situation, and call the police proactively before I confronted him. If violence was imminent, I would intervene immediately. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/34 "2009-04-26T02:35:21Z")
I’m totally with **raindog**. Unless she was pointing a gun at him or something, I wouldn’t see the reverse situation as being as big a deal. I’d figure the dude deserved it, and even if he didn’t he was a pussy for taking it, and probably got off on it somehow. It’s not the same kind of threat. I don’t care what anybody says. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/35 "2009-04-26T02:49:11Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Doesn’t real life matter? In real life, my husband could easily kill me in a physical fight. He’s twice my size and many times stronger. Even with a weapon, unless it was a gun, I’m pretty sure he’d still take me out. That’s real life. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/36 "2009-04-26T03:01:32Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > The implication that the gender of the parties matters kind of bothers me, to be honest. Would you call the police or something if an angry woman were insulting the man she was out with and it was clearly upsetting the man? That wasn’t what the OP said. He said the gender of “you” - the bystander - might have something to do with how you’d act and/or be received, and I agree with him > [@astro](#): > > I think it might also matter if you are man or woman. I (strictly my opinion) think a woman would have a much better chance of confronting the parties and getting them to leave. A man acting as a protector of the crying woman is far more likely to be attacked by the other man. As a woman, I’ve actually seen this scene several times, and my reaction is always the same. I stop, out of reach of either person, and catch the crying person’s eye. I hold it for a minute, making real contact, and slowly say, “Are you all right? Do you need help?” I’ve never had the aggressor threaten me, and most of the time the cryer shakes a head no, and I generally say something like, “Okay, I’ll be back by here in a few minutes if you change your mind.” Without exception, this nonthreatening intervention has either diffused the situation or they’ve taken themselves elsewhere within a couple of minutes. Two or three times, the cryer has said yes, they need help, and I ask if I can walk up to them. The aggressor has \*always \*walked away at this point, sometimes shouting, but always walked away. And I sit and listen or help find resources for the person who needs help. Genders neutral on purpose - I’ve intervened when women have been screaming at men, men at women or women at women. I’ve never witnessed men yelling at men, though. I can’t say as I’d be very inclined to get involved there; that seems too physically dangerous to me. And yeah, I doubt a man, or even a younger and prettier woman, could get away with this. Being an Earth Mama has its benefits. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/37 "2009-04-26T03:03:46Z")
Been there, done that. I was unloading my delivery pick up truck when my coworker and I saw and guy giving all kinds of shit to this woman. Nothign physical but you could sense that throwing a punch was not far from his mind. We walked toward him shouting “cut it out, let her be, if she’s done something wrong just let her go!” the guy stopped and walked away. We’re not particularly scary of threatening, but it was simply big and agressive against small and harmless, regardless of sex. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/38 "2009-04-26T03:04:36Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > I agree with you 100%. > > I would be more likely to monitor the situation, and call the police proactively before I confronted him. If violence was imminent, I would intervene immediately. I had to call the cops more than once for a DV situation that was going on in the apartment right below ours when my wife and I were in college. The only time I’ve personally intervened occurred in the public laundry room of different apartment building shortly after my wife and I moved to the Twin Cities. As it happened, our apartment was right over the laundry roome. We heard loud screaming and swearing, a woman crying. I went down to check it out. I heard a loud slap right before I opened the door. I saw a woman who was a tenant holding the side of her head and a guy who was not a tenant telling me to go away. They were youngish – like in their 20’s. I asked him what the fuck was going on. Another woman, who was also a tenant, and who I guess knew the victim, had gotten in there right before me and said he had smacked her. He told me she was his wife, and it was none of my business. I told him I was _making_ it my business, and he needed to get the fuck out the building. I really got in his face. It was intense. I called him “OJ,” and a bunch of other stuff. A few other tenants started coming in. My wife came in and wanted me to leave. I was in full baboon mode, so I wouldn’t. She started physically dragging me out of the room, and the other guy started calling me a pussy for letting “my woman push me around.” I think he really felt like he had gotten one over on me for that. One of the other women n the building said she’d called the cops, and the dude rabbited. A few of us spent some time talking to the victim, telling her she didn’t have to take that kind of shit, but I didn’t think it would really do any good. At least she didn’t try to defend him like a lot of them do, she was just saying “I know, I know.” For a while I was thought he might want to come back and start more shit, but I was told that his wife (who he was already separated from) had basically cut all contact with him and gotten an RO after that, so I never saw him again. A couple of the women in the building started jokingly calling me “hero” after that. My wife wasn’t one of them. She thought I was an idiot for putting myself at risk. I’d still do it again. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/39 "2009-04-26T03:13:30Z")
Hell no. I have family who are cops. I’ve heard too many stories about how they’ll get called on a domestic violence call. They arrive at the scene and the woman is beat to shit. They’ll immediately arrest the guy and as soon as they do the woman goes batshit “NO NO PLEASE DON’T ARREST MY HUSBAND!!” My uncle (a cop) told me one time when he was off duty, he witnessed a man giving a serious beat down to his GF. My uncle, identified himself as a cop and proceeded to take the guy down to the ground. As he was doing this the lady started to kick, scratch and slap my uncle who was only trying to help the stupid bitch. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/40 "2009-04-26T03:18:20Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m totally with **raindog**. Unless she was pointing a gun at him or something, I wouldn’t see the reverse situation as being as big a deal. I’d figure the dude deserved it, and even if he didn’t he was a pussy for taking it, and probably got off on it somehow. It’s not the same kind of threat. I don’t care what anybody says. So there’s no chance that the woman deserves it? And a man always has an obligation to stand up for himself but a woman, I assume, doesn’t and needs rescuing? > [@WhyNot](#): > > That wasn’t what the OP said. He said the gender of “you” - the bystander - might have something to do with how you’d act and/or be received, and I agree with him.\ I didn’t say the OP explicitly said that, but “if you saw a woman getting told off by a man she was with would you intervene on the woman’s behalf” isn’t exactly a gender-neutral scenario. I didn’t mean to derail anything by pointing that out, but the scenario did seem to imply that a certain amount of ‘white knighting’ was expected, because obviously a woman who’s moved to tears by angry words in public is in a terribly abusive relationship and thus needs rescuing, which no possibility that it’s a legitimate argument and the woman is, to use the colloquial, a pussy who cries at the drop of a hat. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340.md?page=3)