# A couple is arguing, the woman is crying & the man is cursing her. Do you intervene? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 25, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340 "2009-04-25T19:37:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/41 "2009-04-26T03:24:46Z")
That’s usually the case, that’s right. That’s reality. Men are bigger than women. Men are more aggressive. I’m concerned about women in those situations. I’m not concerned about men. If you want to feel sorry for the poor widdle man, knock yourself out. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/42 "2009-04-26T03:27:13Z")
> [@Rebo](#): > > Have y’all seen [this show](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlFAd4YdQks&feature=related)? I would most certainly call the police if I saw a woman beating a man, or if it was woman/woman man/man. I’d be a lot more careful it it were man/man, as someone else said, two angry males is too much risk for me. Angry words are [still a form of violence](http://www.articlesbase.com/wellness-articles/anger-management-strategies-negative-effects-of-poor-anger-management-skills-364518.html), and it disturbs the public peace. All too quickly they can escalate to blows, also. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/43 "2009-04-26T07:47:46Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > Forgetting for just a minute the typical physical differences between a man and woman and focusing on the simple fact that men _ **overwhelmingly** _ are the perpetrators, rather then the victims of domestic violence Cite? While the vast majority of **articles** go into abuse of women by husbands, [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence) says that this may not be the case, but there’s inconclusive research. For instance, men are expected to be much more tolerant of female violence: a woman can slap a man in public, but a man cannot slap a woman. [Another](http://couples-counselling.suite101.com/article.cfm/emotional_physical_husband_abuse) interesting article. ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/44 "2009-04-26T08:05:29Z")
I’d probably try to divert the asshole’s attention from his victim, if only to ask him to please lower his voice so the rest of us could enjoy our meal. Best case: He lowers his voice because he realizes he’s making an ass of himself and the situation de-escalates. Alternative: He turns his assholishness on me, making the mistake of thinking that an jolly-looking fat old guy doesn’t know how to throw a punch, and I pound his ass. With the chair he was sitting in. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/45 "2009-04-26T09:12:08Z")
**Diogenes** , that was really cool. I mean _really_. **astro** , thanks for your response to my requests to **Der Trihs** for cites. At first when I was reading your link, I thought you had me. Then I read this at the bottom of the article: > [@](#): > > The authors say they have no intention of minimizing the very real problem of serious domestic violence — the classic male batterer. The survey did not cover the use of knives, guns, choking, or burning, and it was not concerned with the kind of situation that can drive a woman to seek shelter outside the home. The view of the authors is that most intimate partner violence should not be equated with severe battering. Domestic disputes that turn physical because of retaliation and escalation do not have the same causes or the same consequences as male battering. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/46 "2009-04-26T12:24:23Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Cite? While the vast majority of **articles** go into abuse of women by husbands, [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence) says that this may not be the case, but there’s inconclusive research. For instance, men are expected to be much more tolerant of female violence: a woman can slap a man in public, but a man cannot slap a woman. [Another](http://couples-counselling.suite101.com/article.cfm/emotional_physical_husband_abuse) interesting article. I should cite (other then than the one **Sleeps With Butterflies** provided…) something we all intuitively know? I think not. In the last day or 2 some guy killed his family, and then himself. We will forget about it quickly, in part because over the last 60 days it has happened again and again—men walking into schools, workplaces and homes and killing people. If you are killed tomorrow at work by an estranged spouse you know it will be a man. If one of your subordinates doesn’t show up to work tomorrow because of DV, it will be a woman. As how this all relates to the OP (which we should get back to…) maybe just maybe it will be the woman that slaps that guy in the restaurant. But we’ve all learned from experience (and don’t need a pin head academic to tell us…) that the man has the following options that the woman doesn’t have. He can: 1. Weather that blow fairly easily, and even ignore it. 2. Restrain her, or take some other action that stops her, or, 3. Hit her back with enough force to effectively make her the victim. In my own life I once had a woman punch me in the jaw during an argument. It never would have occurred to me that I was in danger. In fact, she hit me as hard as she could and I was struck how hard that really was. Still, it had no other effect other than changing the immediate focus of the conversation. (to, “What in the world did you do that for?”) So the comment _“[men are] much more tolerant of female violence”_ is downright comical. _Men are more tolerant of female violence because they can afford to be!_ Poster after poster has shown reluctance to get involved for fear of being a victim themselves by the [presumed] male aggressor. Not a single post expressed a fear of intervention towards a woman for fear she’ll turn on him. In fact, I would be less likely to call the police if the woman was the aggressor because I know the average man can take care of himself----or I can for him. That woman in the restaurant may be in danger and deserves my vigilance, even if it is to monitor the situation. The man is overwhelmingly not in danger, and my response to him is “Man up, dude.” ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/47 "2009-04-26T16:53:19Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > I should cite (other then than the one **Sleeps With Butterflies** provided…) something we all intuitively know? I think not. I think you should. Things we ‘intuitively know’ may be false. ---
**Author:** ![Frustrated\_Wonderer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a4c791/32.png) [@Frustrated\_Wonderer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frustrated_Wonderer)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/48 "2009-04-26T17:14:32Z")
Heck no. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/49 "2009-04-26T17:49:15Z")
> [@Zabali\_Clawbane](#): > > I have been known to just stand, watching, as a guy was cursing a woman though, letting him know I was watching. Doing so in such a way that he knew I was making mental notes and would tell all I’d observed to the police if he didn’t stop right now. That method has had some success, the guy settled down and seemed sheepish that he had gotten some public disapproval. I suppose I can do the gimlet eye pretty well. This is pretty much what I do. Sometimes with an accompanied “cough” to let those involved know that they’re not in a private bubble. I had a similar experience to **DtC** ’s. I lived in an apartment building in downtown St Paul that was a bit sketchy but cheap and a couple blocks from work. I frequently came home for lunch and would take the stairs up to my apartment on the second floor. One day, I hear some yelling and bumping around as I came up the stairs. A man and woman were in the middle of a fight with the woman sitting on the floor against the wall protecting her head while the man was hitting her. I reacted without thinking, ran over and pushed the guy away, grabbed the woman by her arm, unlocked my apartment door and pulled her inside. The guy pushed against the door before I got a chance to shut, I pushed back and leaned against the door while fumbling for the dead bolt. Even after I got the door locked, he was still trying to get in and I had quite a few scratches and a hole from his attempts. The woman was on the phone and had called 911 and 15 minutes later they arrived. She filed a report and her boyfriend went off to jail. One week later, I saw the same two in the lobby, bruises still on her face, and they were canoodling by the mailboxes. She looked at me and gave me a stinkeye. I don’t think I’ve ever been so pissed off since. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/50 "2009-04-26T18:23:28Z")
No violence = not my bussiness. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/51 "2009-04-26T18:33:04Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > One week later, I saw the same two in the lobby, bruises still on her face, and they were canoodling by the mailboxes. She looked at me and gave me a stinkeye. I don’t think I’ve ever been so pissed off since. Yeah, there comes a point where you can’t help but think they deserve it. ---
**Author:** ![vandal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/858c86/32.png) [@vandal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vandal)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/52 "2009-04-26T18:37:29Z")
No. Unless there is violence involved, it’s none of my business. For the sake of argument though, let’s say you do intervene. What the hell do you say? Not knowing any of the facts, how do you approach this couple and try to quell the situation? All I see if your attempted good deed blowing up in your face. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/53 "2009-04-26T19:01:31Z")
I knew all the facts I needed to know. One of the reasons these guys always get away with this shit is that no one ever confronts them about it. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/54 "2009-04-26T19:01:52Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I think you should. Things we ‘intuitively know’ may be false. This is true, and I may be wrong. And, admittedly my experiences are anecdotal. Still, **Sleeps With Butterflies** ’s cites were extremely compelling, and consistent with my life experience and what we see day to day in the news. ---
**Author:** ![BMax](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bmax/32/4267_2.png) [@BMax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMax)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/55 "2009-04-26T19:22:02Z")
I was once in a relationship with a girl who was physically abusive to me. Repeatedly, and sometimes in public. The last time she attacked me was when I broke up with her. I defended myself. It resulted in scratches to my face and a dislocated elbow for her. I called 911 & requested an ambulance for her. The 911 operator tried to keep me on the phone until the authorites arrived but I left before I could be taken to the county jail. I should not have hurt that girl, but I honestly did not have any conscious thoughts in my mind at the time. I was acting purely on self-protective instinct. Our mutual friends were split on gender lines. All the women sided with her. Some made nasty comments to me when they saw me, even with claw marks on my face. Every one of them assumed that I had deserved whatever this girl did to me. All the men remained my friends even if their wives took her side. Fortunately I had friends to stay with so I did not have to sleep on the street for more than a couple nights. She was later involved romantically with a friend of mine, we’ll call him Miles. Miles ran into me at a social event and told me that he & Kara had broken up and when they broke up, she attacked him physically. He called 911 and she knocked the phone off the wall. he escaped the apartment, but she called the police on him, got a restraining order against him to keep him away from the addreses of all their mutual friends and 12-step meetings in the area. She kept most of his posessions. The exact same thing she had done to me. She committed suicide within a year. I should not have gotten involved with that girl in the first place. Her psychological history should have been enough to keep me away. But when you are broken yourself you tend to choose people who are also broken. I have intervened in couples violence in public. A few years prior to that I saw a man cusring his wife on a bus stop bench. He asked her “How would you like it if I punch you in the face?”, then he punched her in the face. There were about ten other people there beside myself and the couple. I stood up and asked the man if he wanted to try that on a man and see what would happen. He said “No sir, I don’t want any trouble with you”. His wife told me this was none of my business, to leave him alone. We all got on the bus, the couple sat in silence throughout the bus ride. Everyone except me avoided eye contact. ---
**Author:** ![Laudenum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Laudenum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laudenum)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/56 "2009-04-26T20:04:03Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m totally with **raindog**. Unless she was pointing a gun at him or something, I wouldn’t see the reverse situation as being as big a deal. I’d figure the dude deserved it, and even if he didn’t he was a pussy for taking it, and probably got off on it somehow. It’s not the same kind of threat. I don’t care what anybody says. Except that the man can’t hit back, so he doesn’t have a choice as to whether or not he can take it. I remember seeing a girl in town before, absolutely smacking lumps out of a guy, who was trying his best to limp away. Limp, because she was going for the shins. If a man had inflicted a fraction of the damage, that this woman had, then no-one would have blamed the victim for lamping him. Without being too blunt, not all women are delicate little flowers. Go into some of the rougher bars in Dublin, and look the wrong way at a few "how-ya"s, then count your teeth. Some women are trained in martial arts, others are just rough. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > That’s usually the case, that’s right. That’s reality. Men are bigger than women. Men are more aggressive. I’m concerned about women in those situations. I’m not concerned about men. If you want to feel sorry for the poor widdle man, knock yourself out. Yes, because all men are vikings, and all women are princesses.:rolleyes: I know one particular woman who is a absolute heifer. She is 6’ 1’’ and is heavily built. The last time I saw her she was nursing a broken finger from when she belted a guy the night before for grabbing her arse. She broke his nose. She seems to date smaller guys, who, tbh, she could easily kick the shit out of. In a fight I’d be more worried for some of them then vice-versa. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/57 "2009-04-26T22:06:51Z")
…but the truth is that if the cops arrive and the guy has a broken nose and the gal has a broken nose the guy’s in deeper shit even if the guy’s a jockey and the woman is a starting center at the WNBA ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/58 "2009-04-26T22:25:33Z")
The red line for me or indeed anyone to intervene would be for the woman asking the man to keep his (physical) distance and the man not complying, or the woman trying to leave and the man restraining her. Below that level, it’s a consensual quarrel. (note to women: if you want to be left alone by a man, please clearly, loudly but calmly state that so that the situation is unambiguous to the bystanders) Below that red line mentioned above, I have sometimes walked up (not closely) and pointedly observed. It was my impression that this at least did not not escalate the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/59 "2009-04-26T23:13:12Z")
I am pretty sure that if my husband saw a man hit a woman in public, he’d deal the guy an ass-kicking until he was on the ground, then stand on him until the cops got there. The guy would go to jail via the emergency room, no question. Hubby isn’t a particularly big or violent guy- he just has a problem with violence against women. He also has the scariest stink-eye anyone we know has ever seen- it’s glacial and utterly heart-stopping. Short of physical violence, he would probably step close and stare the guy down until he shut up. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340/60 "2009-04-27T01:41:53Z")
The one time I ran into this situation, I interrupted the yelling man by saying, politely and loudly, “excuse me,” and then turned to the girl and asked her, loud enough for him to overhear but not at all aggressively, if she was okay, did she need any help. She said she did not and I said okay, but remember she didn’t have to be talked to like that by anyone and to stay safe. Then I retreated to my table (this was at the mall) and ostentatiously took out my cell phone while making eye contact with the guy. That seemed to do the trick in terms of shutting the guy up. If he had resumed, yes, I would have called the police. What is key, IMO, for those who choose to engage, is to engage with the woman (or man – the “victim,” the yellee, not the yeller) and not engage with the person doing the verbal abusing. I think that’s important for the personal safety of the intervenor, especially if the intervenor is another male. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-is-arguing-the-woman-is-crying-the-man-is-cursing-her-do-you-intervene/494340.md?page=4)