# A couple of Ontario Traffic Questions **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 14, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-ontario-traffic-questions/557165 "2010-10-14T19:28:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-ontario-traffic-questions/557165/21 "2010-10-15T17:41:55Z")
> [@GiantRat](#): > > At the risk of sounding like an American A-hole, why do folks with Ontario and Quebec license plates terrorize the highways in the US? It seems like (nearly) every time I encounter Ontario/Quebec plates, the vehicle wearing them is either 20 miles over or 20 miles under the speed limit, and frequently swerving for no reason. > > FTR - I’m not a Canada hater or anything like that, I just identify people by their license plates (“get out of the f’n way, Utah!” - that kind of thing). It’s a well-known fact that people who are not from your own state/province/country can’t drive worth a shit and are complete morons. Jeesh. ---
**Author:** ![Galileo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Galileo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galileo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-ontario-traffic-questions/557165/22 "2010-10-15T18:37:29Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > No red-light cameras _in the City of Toronto_. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen them in Mississauga. Here’s something from the City of Toronto Transportation Services: > [@](#): > > Currently there are over 150 cameras being rotated among 180 intersections throughout the participating municipalities. In Toronto alone, 87 cameras are rotated among 114 intersections. While some people have called the cameras a tax grab, in fact it costs more to operate the cameras than the program generates in terms of revenue. Saving lives and changing driver behaviour are key reasons the cameras are used. > **[Streets, Parking & Transportation](https://www.toronto.ca/services-payments/streets-parking-transportation/)** Also, here’s a list of camera locations: [Streets, Parking & Transportation – City of Toronto](http://www.toronto.ca/transportation/redlight_cameras/locations.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-ontario-traffic-questions/557165/23 "2010-10-15T18:53:29Z")
> [@Galileo](#): > > > [@Sunspace](#): > > > > No red-light cameras _in the City of Toronto_. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen them in Mississauga. > > Here’s something from the City of Toronto Transportation Services: > > > [@](#): > > > > Currently there are over 150 cameras being rotated among 180 intersections throughout the participating municipalities. In Toronto alone, 87 cameras are rotated among 114 intersections. While some people have called the cameras a tax grab, in fact it costs more to operate the cameras than the program generates in terms of revenue. Saving lives and changing driver behaviour are key reasons the cameras are used. > > [Streets, Parking & Transportation – City of Toronto](http://www.toronto.ca/transportation/redlight_cameras/index.htm) > > Also, here’s a list of camera locations: [Streets, Parking & Transportation – City of Toronto](http://www.toronto.ca/transportation/redlight_cameras/locations.htm) I stand corrected. I was sure I’d read something about Toronto having them and then removing them. Oh well… ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-ontario-traffic-questions/557165/24 "2010-10-15T19:06:31Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > > [@GiantRat](#): > > > > At the risk of sounding like an American A-hole, why do folks with Ontario and Quebec license plates terrorize the highways in the US? It seems like (nearly) every time I encounter Ontario/Quebec plates, the vehicle wearing them is either 20 miles over or 20 miles under the speed limit, and frequently swerving for no reason. > > One guess: some cars from Canada don’t have mph on their speedometers, only kph\*, and as a result they don’t have a good idea as to exactly how fast “65 mph” should feel. Yes, you could look down at your speedometer and noodle out how many klicks to the hour that is, but how often do you keep an eye on your speedometer when you’re driving in a foreign country? > > \*I’m not sure what proportion of Canadian cars have mph on their speedometers but I’ve been in more than one that didn’t. What?! Canadian cars’ speedometers have both miles and km per hour. If you have specific knowledge of any that don’t, please provide link. Canadians have a great idea of how fast 65 mph since the typical highway speed limit is 100km/h (approx 62 mph) but most will travel at around 120 km/h (approx. 75 mph) Furthermore, you should be looking down at your speedometer often whether you’re driving in a foreign country or not. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-ontario-traffic-questions/557165/25 "2010-10-15T19:12:49Z")
> [@GiantRat](#): > > At the risk of sounding like an American A-hole, why do folks with Ontario and Quebec license plates terrorize the highways in the US? It seems like (nearly) every time I encounter Ontario/Quebec plates, the vehicle wearing them is either 20 miles over or 20 miles under the speed limit, and frequently swerving for no reason. > > FTR - I’m not a Canada hater or anything like that, I just identify people by their license plates (“get out of the f’n way, Utah!” - that kind of thing). Wow! Overgeneralize much? Although it does remind me of the reason I couldn’t drive a BMW… I’d have to start driving like a prick. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-ontario-traffic-questions/557165/26 "2010-10-15T19:39:36Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > 1. In school zones without the speed tag, is the speed limit 40 km/h? (Blue school zone signs, how weird)? > Not sure. Speed limits are always posted in school zones. Sometimes it’s not 40 KPH. I can think of one that’s 60 and one that’s 80. > > What!? If the speed limit is over 40 km/h it’s definitely not a school zone! > > 1. What do those big, square, yellow signs with the school zone symbol mean? The Ontario driver’s manual says that blue ones are school zone crossings, but that you don’t need to do anything when you see one. > It’s just a caution sign. Beware! > > Well, you need to be watching for children crossing and/or guards. > > 1. WTF does a flashing GREEN light mean? Does it mean that the other side has a flashing yellow? > Advanced green. You can go, typically for left turns, but the other side still has solid red. > > 2. When turning left, is it okay to park your ass in the middle of the intersection until it is safe to proceed? Will you get a ticket if you complete your left turn on a red light, provided that you were in the intersection when the light turned yellow? How many cars may wait in the intersection? Ie If the first person is in the intersection must the second person be behind the stop line? > You won’t get ticketed for being in the intersection when the light turns yellow, or red. You can get ticketed for proceeding into the intersection on a yellow. > > Technically, you are not to enter any intersection without a reasonable expectation that you can clear it. It’s unlikely, but if you enter on a green and get stuck, you can be fined for obstructing traffic. Also, if you can’t complete your turn until the yellow or red, you can also be fined for an unsafe left hand turn. As I said it’s unlikely but it is possible, especially if an accident results. > > 1. Does the previous speed limit hold if I am in a construction zone that does not have a posted speed limit (ie just the men at work sign, without the orange speed limit sign). > That’s my interpretation. > > Yes, also recently they have added that speeding fines are doubled any construction zone. > > 1. Do you need to slow down to 60 km/h when you see highway workers who are working outside of a construction zone? WTF are they doing? I saw about a bajillion of them working without any signs placed. > You probably don’t _need_ to, but it’s no doubt a good idea. > > 2. Is flashing your emergency lights when behind a slow moving truck on the highway politeness or an actual law? > Politeness. And safety. I do this if all of a sudden my speed drastically drops on the highway, just to warn the dumfuck coming up behind me that something has changed. > > 3. How fracking fast do you need to go to get pulled over by the cops? I was going close to 120 km/h on that highway between Barrie and Toronto and I was passed by a cop! And people were passing him! And any slower and I would have been a danger to traffic! > You can usually get away with 20% over the speed limit and no one will blink an eye. I drive 110 KPH in a 90 zone to work and back and pass cops all the time. > > 4. Are there any fine points to driving in Toronto that might trip up someone from Saskabush? > > No. Not really. People will not keep to the right unless passing. People weave in and out of lanes from left to right to middle to right to left all the time in order to arrive at their destination 5 minutes early. This is not technically the legal way to drive, but it is done by a lot of drivers with no repercussions. Ditto! ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-ontario-traffic-questions/557165/27 "2010-10-15T19:57:48Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > > [@Galileo](#): > > > > Here’s something from the City of Toronto Transportation Services:[Streets, Parking & Transportation – City of Toronto](http://www.toronto.ca/transportation/redlight_cameras/index.htm) > > > > Also, here’s a list of camera locations: [Streets, Parking & Transportation – City of Toronto](http://www.toronto.ca/transportation/redlight_cameras/locations.htm) > > I stand corrected. I was sure I’d read something about Toronto having them and then removing them. Oh well… You might be thinking of when they had the photo-radar thing on the 401 that was causing all sorts of chaos a while back. I know there are red light cameras because there’s one near my office and one where the Gardiner ends just past the DVP. > [@Sparky812](#): > > What?! Canadian cars’ speedometers have both miles and km per hour. If you have specific knowledge of any that don’t, please provide link. Yup. I don’t know of any car that doesn’t have both. Canadian ones usually look like [this](http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/tootles/tootles0608/tootles060800024/509564-speedometer-reading-120-kph.jpg) with the big numbers as the KMH and the smaller inner numbers MPH, and U.S. speedometers are the [other way around](http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/speedometer1.jpg) with the MPH as the big outer numbers and the KMH as the small inside numbers. That way you don’t have to do the math when you cross the border. Also for #9 demerit points start at 15 kmh above the speed limites. So if you’re doing 90 in an 80 zone, you’ll get a ticket, but if you’re doing 100 in an 80 zone you’ll get a ticket _and_ demerit points on your licence. ---
**Author:** ![Galileo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Galileo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galileo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-ontario-traffic-questions/557165/28 "2010-10-15T22:42:41Z")
> [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](#): > > > [@Sparky812](#): > > > > What?! Canadian cars’ speedometers have both miles and km per hour. If you have specific knowledge of any that don’t, please provide link. > > Yup. I don’t know of any car that doesn’t have both. BMW and Volkswagen sell cars in Canada with kph only. Check out page 8 of the pdf at [VW Passat](http://www.vw.ca/etc/medialib/vwcms/virtualmaster/en_ca/models/passat/passat_sedan/information___prices.Par.0013.File.pdf/51654_passat_e_2010.pdf) and zoom in nice and close on page 22 of the [BMW 5 Series online brochure](http://crm.bmw.ca/com/en/newvehicles/5series/sedan/2009/brochure/index2.html). ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-ontario-traffic-questions/557165/29 "2010-10-15T23:04:45Z")
Ah, another tip for the OP–one of the city’s most notorious radar traps. Assuming things have not changed (and I see no reason why they would have), watch out when you’re driving northbound on Bayview Avenue, just north of Lawrence. Bayview and Lawrence are city streets, but their intersection is built like a freeway interchange. The “freeway interchange” impression leads many northbound drivers to speed on Bayview. Problem is, that the speed limit on Bayview is 50 km/h; and the police like to sit in the driveway of the Crescent School, about a half-kilometer north of Lawrence, and pick off speeders. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-ontario-traffic-questions/557165/30 "2010-10-17T20:57:58Z")
> [@Zany\_Zeolite\_Zipper](#): > > Ho-ray for me, I’m moving to Toronto from Saskatchewan, so I took a read through their driver’s handbook, and I still have a few questions. > > 1. What do those big, square, yellow signs with the school zone symbol mean? The Ontario driver’s manual says that blue ones are school zone crossings, but that you don’t need to do anything when you see one. > > Thanks Note that you may see both blue background or fluorescent yellow background school signs in Ontario. Last time I checked, only the blue background ones were shown in the driver’s manual and the online MoT sites, but an e-mail query to the MoT got a reply to the effect that the yellow background was a new standard recommended by an inter-provincial organization which dealt with standardizing traffic laws and signage across the provinces. Not provincially official, but individual jurisdictions were free to make the change through appropriate bylaws. My municipality has adopted the recommended change and you can see both types of signs as the older blue ones are gradually replaced by the new yellow ones. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-ontario-traffic-questions/557165/31 "2010-10-19T11:22:51Z")
> [@Galileo](#): > > BMW and Volkswagen sell cars in Canada with kph only. > > Check out page 8 of the pdf at [VW Passat](http://www.vw.ca/etc/medialib/vwcms/virtualmaster/en_ca/models/passat/passat_sedan/information___prices.Par.0013.File.pdf/51654_passat_e_2010.pdf) > and zoom in nice and close on page 22 of the [BMW 5 Series online brochure](http://crm.bmw.ca/com/en/newvehicles/5series/sedan/2009/brochure/index2.html). Okay, I stand corrected. Apparently, VW has changed theirs for the new 2010 models (they used both up to 2009) and BMW uses only km/h for everywhere outside the US. Of course, this is a small proportion of all cars in Canada and is still insignificant when explaining why Canadians drive faster or slower while in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-ontario-traffic-questions/557165/32 "2010-10-19T12:35:31Z")
> [@Sparky812](#): > > Of course, this is a small proportion of all cars in Canada and is still insignificant when explaining why Canadians drive faster or slower while in the US. We get Ontario plates in Michigan all the time. I’ve assumed that they know the speed limit conversions; it’s not rocket science. I’m always under the impression that the disparity in speed is due to being overly cautious on the low end (because, “oh my, we’re in a foreign country, and we best be careful!”) and actually knowing that the state police won’t pull you over unless you’re being really outrageous on the high end of the speeds. The nice thing about the Ontario drivers is that they typically get the hell out of the left lane when you come up behind them, whereas the ass-wipes from Ohio will happily stay in the left lane at 5 mph below the speed limit. As for driving in Ontario and the GTA, well, I lived in Mississauga for a year, worked in Oakville, spent some weekends driving back and forth to Michigan, and other weekends doing stuff downtown. (I’m an American driver.) Here are some things that I learned when driving in the GTA all the time: [ul] [li]GPS _isn’t_ for feeble-minded old people. Granted, GPS wasn’t as ubiquitous then as it is now, and at first I thought that good, old maps that had served me my entire life were good enough. My loaner car had built-in GPS, and I needed it the first day to navigate the stupid 401 to prevent from being forced to an exit or an express lane.[/li][li]I don’t know if this is the law or just common courtesy, but at heavy intersections without a protected left turn (“advance green” they call it), it’s okay to turn left, even if the opposing traffic is turning right into the same road. Of course you _already know_ that when making any turn, you’re supposed to turn into the closest lane, so this works out just swell.[/li][li]The 401 between London and Mississauga has no speed limit. Well, it’s posted, but no one really pays it much attention, including the OPP.[/li][li]But between London and Detroit, the fines are outrageous and there are a lot of patrols.[/li][li]OPP doesn’t mean the same thing as in the “Naughty by Nature” song.[/li][li]The 407 _is_ excellent, and it’s only really expensive if you don’t have a tag (“video monitoring fee” or something to that effect, something outrageous like $5 every time you pass a camera).[/li][/ul] Other observations: And in general, the big, tall apartment buildings aren’t welfare apartments. They’re actually extremely expensive flats that cost just as a much as a real house. And I don’t mean just in downtown Toronto where you expect that people are forced to live in apartments, but out in the suburbs where there’s lots and lots of land. And there aren’t a lot of real houses any more; they’re all semi-detached duplexes or multi-plexes, and cost a fortune. There’s also no good Mexican or Tex-Mex food. Fish and chips are generally outstanding everywhere, and the waitperson doesn’t have a confused look when you ask for malt vinegar (indeed, it’s usually brought by default). ---
**Author:** ![Galileo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Galileo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galileo)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-ontario-traffic-questions/557165/33 "2010-10-19T13:49:38Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > My loaner car had built-in GPS, and I needed it the first day to navigate the stupid 401 to prevent from being forced to an exit or an express lane. There are signs (overhead and on the side) that tell you about upcoming exits and changes from collector to express lanes, and lane markings that indicate the transition. Not clear to me why you need GPS for this particular aspect of navigating the 401. Also, it’s rare to be forced to exit if you are in the right lane. Usually, there are two exit lanes but only one forces you off, and this lane doesn’t exist until shortly before the exit. If you are driving in the right lane, you won’t have to exit unless you move to this new lane. And, here’s a good rule: When in doubt, stay in the collector lanes. These lanes will take you everywhere that the express lanes go, and they are often faster. Yes, there are times when the express lanes are faster, but don’t use them as the default. Use them if you have a good reason to do so, eg. you know about particular traffic patterns, or you know that there’s an accident in the collector lanes or that there’s construction ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-ontario-traffic-questions/557165/34 "2010-10-19T14:21:13Z")
> [@Galileo](#): > > There are signs (overhead and on the side) that tell you about upcoming exits and changes from collector to express lanes, and lane markings that indicate the transition. Not clear to me why you need GPS for this particular aspect of navigating the 401. I supposed I failed to mention that (a) I’m always in the left lane (unless I’m not passing, which I usually am), and that (b) the 401 is a parking lot from about 7 am until 10 am or so. Without adequate planning, it’s rough to convince people to let you change lanes at 1 km/h. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-ontario-traffic-questions/557165/35 "2010-10-19T14:41:45Z")
> [@Galileo](#): > > BMW and Volkswagen sell cars in Canada with kph only. > > Check out page 8 of the pdf at [VW Passat](http://www.vw.ca/etc/medialib/vwcms/virtualmaster/en_ca/models/passat/passat_sedan/information___prices.Par.0013.File.pdf/51654_passat_e_2010.pdf) > and zoom in nice and close on page 22 of the [BMW 5 Series online brochure](http://crm.bmw.ca/com/en/newvehicles/5series/sedan/2009/brochure/index2.html). Yeah, I found that out over the weekend. BMWs mainly. But our Volkswagen has both kmh and mph. I would assume some other fancy European imports have only kmh, but most cars here have both. ---
**Author:** ![Galileo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Galileo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galileo)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-ontario-traffic-questions/557165/36 "2010-10-19T14:46:50Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > I supposed I failed to mention that (a) I’m always in the left lane (unless I’m not passing, which I usually am), and that (b) the 401 is a parking lot from about 7 am until 10 am or so. Without adequate planning, it’s rough to convince people to let you change lanes at 1 km/h. Well, first, I’ll say that it seems like I’m saying that there’s no reason to use GPS if there are road signs, which, of course, is silly. But, now I’m a bit confused. If you are “always in the left lane”, how are you being “forced to exit”? And, if the traffic is moving at 1 km/h, isn’t it relatively easy to change lanes to avoid exiting? You’ll have several minutes to do so, compared to a few seconds when you are traveling at 100 km/h. I’ve never had to had to wait for more than three cars before being able to change lanes in stop-and-slow traffic, and usually it’s immediate: I signal and the car in the other lane gives me room to change lanes. Also, if the 401 is “a parking lot”, then which cars are you passing in the left lane? I’m sure that you’ve driven in a variety of traffic conditions so I’m not saying that you are being contradictory – perhaps just incomplete in your description of what you’ve encountered. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-ontario-traffic-questions/557165/37 "2010-10-25T11:36:19Z")
> [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](#): > > Yeah, I found that out over the weekend. BMWs mainly. But our Volkswagen has both kmh and mph. I would assume some other fancy European imports have only kmh, but most cars here have both. I checked out a new BMW this weekend, and with the digital instrument cluster option you can switch the speedometer between mph and km/h at the touch of a button. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-ontario-traffic-questions/557165/38 "2010-10-25T11:47:03Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > You’re moving from Saskatchewan to Toronto? I didn’t think we were allowed to do that! They haven’t kicked me out yet. 🙂 About GPSs – if you have one, turn off “Allow Toll Roads”. If I don’t, my GPS keeps trying to put me on the 407, which isn’t cheap. One more tip: if you have to drive on the Don Valley Parkway during rush hour, you’ll be slowed down to a crawl most of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-ontario-traffic-questions/557165/39 "2010-10-25T12:29:04Z")
> [@Galileo](#): > > I’m sure that you’ve driven in a variety of traffic conditions so I’m not saying that you are being contradictory – perhaps just incomplete in your description of what you’ve encountered. That’s probably it. Typically, I’m in the left lane, passing. The 401 often suddenly becomes a parking lot just east of Mississauga. So, one second in the left lane, the next second completely stopped. The GPS was helpful, because it was inside of my cockpit, and not hidden behind a huge 18-wheeler. Does one _need_ GPS? Absolutely not. I was merely indicating that for the first time, I came to appreciate why people liked GPS, because I’d always been a map snob. ---
**Author:** ![Galileo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Galileo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galileo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-ontario-traffic-questions/557165/40 "2010-10-25T14:17:25Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > The 401 often suddenly becomes a parking lot just east of Mississauga. If you’re driving into Toronto from Mississauga, you might want to look at taking the 427 to the 409 which takes you to the 401 near Islington. The route is longer but you can avoid a portion of the “parking lot”. Sometimes, though, the 409 can be backed up as you approach the 401. Also, when you get back on the 401, it’s usually better to stay in the collector lanes until just before Keele St, and switch to the express lanes at the “basket weave”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-ontario-traffic-questions/557165.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-ontario-traffic-questions/557165.md?page=3)