Right. They were also the dreamer for that level.
Ariadne only designed the levels; she then gave them to their assigned dreamers for the dreamers to construct.
Correct, that was Limbo which was kind of a shared-consciousness level.
Rainy City - Yusuf’s dream
Hotel - Arthur’s dream
Snow Fortress - Eames’ dream
Dead Rotting City - Limbo, nobody’s/everybody’s dream
My fault, my wording was ambiguous, if not plain wrong.
Thanks for the replies everyone, I think I’m beginning to understand the basic concept better.
This is nowhere near as bad as “omfg! people only use 1% of the brain”. In context “They say we only use a fraction of the true potential of our brains” sounds like a claim about creativity. Even out of context I wouldn’t take a claim about “potential” to mean that only a fraction of the physical mass of the brain is functional. “They say” is also pretty vague. It could mean “experts say”, but it could also mean “there is a common belief”. There is indeed a common belief that people do not make full use of their brain power.
This bit of dialogue also isn’t particularly important to the story. We aren’t told that the Inception team is successful only because they’re among the elite few capable of utilizing 100% of their brain power or anything like that. I’ve never seen The Matrix and probably never will, but it’s my understanding that the humans as batteries thing was a fairly important part of the backstory.
While you’re correct that it can be interpreted in several different ways I bet you a five pound note and a half-eaten packet of crisps that everyone involved in the production intended it to be used in the '1% of our brain!!!" sense.
btw you’re missing out if you don’t watch The Matrix, it certainly has its flaws but its a very entertaining film.
The ‘humans as batteries’ things is important if its really intended as proposed, because its a crazy way to do things, but it can be fanwanked away as the character espousing it not being aware of of the actual situation. I did read that the creators of the movie had a valid and logical explanation but other people in the production of the film thought the audience would be too simple and easily confused to understand it.
As I understand it, the original idea was the the machines were using human brains as extra processors. Just replace that scene where Morpheus holds up a battery with one where he holds up a computer chip.
I think this might help to explain why not much care was taken to make the characters sympathetic (to us, at least) as well as why there was no detailed explanation of the dream entrance technology.
There’s no explanation of the technology because it would just be something like this:
The hyperflux ions embedded in the polarized transnebulizer allows quantum entanglement between binary neurons in the receiver’s brain.
It doesn’t really make the story any better to how the magic box works.
That is a neat article and makes a lot of sense.
Just to note, Stephen King also played with the idea of inception in Firestarter - with some pretty creative results that included a guy dressing in his wife’s underwear and and then sticking his hand into a garbage muncher…
Why?
If the explanation is not a plot point (e.g., they need to generate 1.21 gigawatts of power to get home), then it’s always best to ignore it.
You’re talking about people going into other people’s dreams. If you’re not gong to accept the concept, no explanation will change your mind. If you’re going to accept the concept, then no explanation is necessary.
I would happily take that bet, because the common version of this myth is that we only use 10% of our brains. 
See this Scientific American article, or the Wikipedia entry on 10% of brain myth. I have never heard anyone claim that we use only 1% of our brains.
More importantly though, there’s no reason for anyone in the movie Inception to claim that a large percentage of the physical mass of the brain goes unused. Even if this myth were true, it would have nothing to do with the story. They weren’t cutting out the useless 90% of anyone’s brain, or claiming that the ability to successfully pull off an inception required that the team use the normally dormant 90% of their own brains.
Both of the links above indicate that the 10% myth seems to be a corruption of the work of late 19th century psychologist William James, who claimed that most people did not live up to their full intellectual potential. This seems to be closer to Cobb’s intended meaning than a claim that huge chunks of the brain aren’t being used. In any event, we’re talking about one line in the movie, and not a particularly important one. I would guess that it was just meant to make the audience go “Oh yeah, I’ve heard something like that before…” right before Cobb brought up the wonders of the dreaming mind, so as to give an air of plausibility to the whole thing.
I’d say the same is true of this line in Inception. Cobb is supposed to know what he’s talking about regarding the dreaming mind, but he says the “fraction of the true potential of our brains” thing only applies to the waking mind. IIRC he isn’t a psychologist or neurologist, and has no particular expertise when it comes to the functioning of the waking mind. Depending on your interpretation of the movie then Cobb may even be dreaming the entire time, making any of his claims about reality suspect.
Well I was using hyperbole for effect, but I have heard all sorts of numbers bandied around for that figure. I still think the line was intended in the sense of that urban myth but as you say its only one line in the movie (doesn’t stop people getting all bent out of shape about the above quoted line in The Matrix or Unobtanium in Avatar though!) so isn’t worth getting that worked up about, just makes my teeth grate every time I hear someone reference that commonly held belief.
Anyway I was thinking about the movie again today (at least it isn’t forgettable) and I was wondering how Cillian Murphy’s character rationalised the fact that the people he met in the dream(s) were the same people he shared a cabin with on the flight. Did he think he just incorporated them into his dream, or did he realise that they were the people ‘hacking’ his mind but didn’t push the issue? Did he think they had been hired by his fathers second-in-command? I may have missed something but it struck me as odd.
I can’t remember now exactly what the Cillian Murphy character knows about what’s going on, or how much of the dream he’ll remember once he wakes up. But speaking for myself in real life, I don’t really remember very clearly what people in my dreams look like and I don’t pay much attention to the people around me on airplanes. I don’t think I’d be able to recognize a stranger on a plane as someone I’d seen during an in-flight dream.
If I did fall asleep on a plane, have a vivid dream, and realize upon waking that I’d seen the other passengers in my dream, I would assume that my dreaming mind had made use of the faces I saw around me right before falling asleep.
I feel that people like you should not watch any film that isn’t a documentary filmed in real time. The way people like you analyze films is not how they are meant to be viewed or analyzed/
People hate The Matrix because it sucked.
Cobb ofhandedly mentions “you know how people only use 10% of their brain” once as part of expository dialogue to let the audience know that for each level of dreaming, time is experienced more slowly.
Because it hasn’t fucking been invented yet.
Although someone apparently made an instruction manual if you are interested.
I think you might have dreamed that.
It’s fundamentally a heist film. The characters aren’t supposed to be “sympathetic” or “heroic”. They aren’t particulary evil or malicious either.
And really the whole ethical implications of “mind raping” someone are pretty well covered by the entire Cobb and Mal storyline. Cobb messed with Mals mind with the best of possible intentions and it ultimately led to her death, his exile and the near failure of the mission.
The film is about redemption and reconcilliation. Cobb confronting his guilt and over Mals death so he can rejoin his children. And to do so, he helps Fischer reconcile with his father. He also risks his sanity by going into Limbo to rescue Fischer and Saito, even though he has other incentives to do so.
There are also implications that Fischer’s company bcoming a global monopoly with Browning exerting control and influence over it would be a “bad thing”.
["]There was one question I did have about the film, but this site seems to have answered it.]([QUOTE=Disposable Hero;13918542)
Basically, did they have to spend a week at the Van Chase / Rainy City level and how were they not killed by Fischer’s militarized projections? I think the answer is “yes”. They will have to wait until the machine timer runs out (10 hours real time, about a week dream time). But once they released Fischer / crashed the van into the river his projections stopped chasing the team and all they had to do was lay low for a few days. That’s why the only way through was to finish the mission.
How odd to compare those two things. While the “using x% of the brain” thing is a myth in the literal sense, the notion is still true in the figurative sense. Even just a slight lack of sleep can affect brain function. And if you have ever taken any kind of drug, even just caffiene, you know that the manner in which the brain works can be easily and powerfully modified.
It’s just shared lucid dreaming, with one of the participants as host. Technologically they explained its military origin, but not its mechanism. They go into detail about the sedative/lucidity drug and how it’s administered, but never talk about how the mental connection is established.
Well it’s a heist film. Did you have similar issues with Oceans 11? I think only Cobb (trying to get back to his kids rather than in it for the money) and Ariadne (in it for creative reasons, and to keep the team members safe from Mal were really supposed to be sympathetic whereas the rest were just lovable crooks.
It’s not possible to overthink thus movie. I made several pages of diagrams trying to figure certain things out lol.
Was it ever explained why there weren’t any projections when Cobb and Mal were in limbo? In the beginning scene we clearly see that that are projections in Saito’s limbo, so they do exist down there. Cobb warns Ariadne not to alter the dream world too much, lest the projections become hostile. Yet Cobb and Mal can create their own dream world for years and years without any projections coming after them?
Sure, but its left people with the idea that there is something potentially magical or mystical about the human mind thats just waiting to be unlocked when there really isn’t, we could certainly use our brains more efficiently but thats a design flaw from the whole messy process of evolution.
I think my problem was that I had difficulty believing that a dream could be so controlled and scripted but then I’ve never had a lucid dream though I have read about them. Ironically I have had an amazingly long and detailed dream on the level of those shown in Inception (which I mentioned in a thread elsewhere) but I had no control over the plot or details of it.
I approach all ‘criminals as lovable types’ movies with a sceptical eye because in real life crime and criminals are pretty much always unpleasant activities but I’d be lying if I said I didn’t enjoy Oceans 11 and others of its type, I think Inception rubbed me up the wrong way because even though Cobbs motives were laudable he was still seriously screwing around with an innocent mans mind and the ‘happy ending’ for him was based on a lie. Although that raises questions in itself.
I think msmith537 would disagree with you but the tone of his post means it isn’t really worth replying to.
She was the architect and designed all the levels but only one person can actually be the dreamer for each level, and they have to be left behind when the others go deeper, to sustain that level. They made a point of showing that Ariadne designed the levels, but then taught her designs to the relevant team members.
Level one city dreamer - chemist - it’s raining because he has to pee in real life.
Level two hotel dreamer - JGL - he adds the impossible stairwell flourish, and has the headphones on in the van to signal the kick song.
Level three snow fortress - forger - it’s mentioned that he added the special access tunnels to Ariadnes design.
Level four - Saito and the mark enter it as limbo, but Ariadne and Cobb enter it through the dream. It’s not really clear other than that normally limbo is pure stream of consciousness but in this case was filled with Cobb’s memories of limbo since he had spent time there.
The only thing I don’t think was clear was whether the kick pulled you out of a deeper level, pushed you up from the level you are on, or required both.
That’s up to you. But I’m sure I’m not the only one who finds nitpicking fictional technology in film and tv aas if it affects the quality of th story tedious. Just accept that it exists the way they show it to exist and that the rest of the story is driven by the implications of that technology.
Both. A “kick” can be getting killed in the dream which wakes you up. Or it can be being woken at the higher level. For example, Fischer Jr received a simultaneous kick - falling off the build ing in limbo and being defibrilated in the Snow Fortress.
I believe the one caveat is that you can’t be “kicked” out of limbo from the level above. You have to reject the reality of limbo by killing yourself.
From a story telling perspective, I think Nolan just wanted to give a sense of isolation. That there is nothing down there except for Cobb and Mal and whatever they happen to decide to create. What’s more isolating than a giant, unoccupied city?
I think in the dream levels, the subject doesn’t really know they are dreaming. They subconsciously fill the dream world with whatever they expect should be there. Limbo is the subconscious. It is basically like being dropped in an infinite white space. You can fill it with whatever you want, but you know that you created it all. So why bother filling it with a bunch of people?
Their dream could also be to be alone together. Thus, the subconscious doesn’t create any projections to fill the dream world.