# A couple of questions re: Manual Transmissions **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 17, 2005, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-questions-re-manual-transmissions/285262 "2005-01-17T23:22:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tellmei_mnotcrazy/32/3419_2.png) [@TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TellMeI_mNotCrazy)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-questions-re-manual-transmissions/285262/1 "2005-01-17T23:22:51Z")
Two quick, and hopefully easy questions: Why can’t I let go of the clutch when I’m driving in reverse? I have never actually figured out if this is something I am doing wrong, or if it is (coincidentally) the cars that I have driven. Driving forward, obviously, once I have the car in motion I can let the clutch out. However, when I do the same in reverse, the car stalls. Am I doing something wrong? (I taught myself to drive a standard, so that explains how I might not know this.) The second question is, ther user’s manual for the car tells me that when I am on a hill, not to prevent rollback by letting the clutch partially out, but to use the emergency brake instead. Kinda goes against everything I’ve ever believed, and I was pretty proud of myself once I mastered the art of being able to take off without more than an inch or so of rollback. So is this bad for the clutch? I’ve never worn out a clutch (knock on wood) so I’ve never had any reason to question my techniques, but now I wonder if I’m doing things all wrong… ---
**Author:** ![Fuji\_Kitakyusho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f0a364/32.png) [@Fuji\_Kitakyusho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji_Kitakyusho)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-questions-re-manual-transmissions/285262/2 "2005-01-17T23:33:34Z")
There is no reason why you shouldn’t be able to engage the clutch when in reverse. If you are stalling, try raising the engine RPM, otherwise, you might have a repair bill on your hands. As for controlling rollback - it is an important skill to be able to do this via clutch control, but really only to learn the nuances of driving a standard. Making a habit of this will wear out your clutch in a hurry. When you are stopped on a hill and wish to start again, you should use the hand brake to keep the car from rolling. As you apply the accelerator and slowly engage the clutch, simultaneously reduce force on the hand brake - you should be able to transition smoothly to going forward, clutch engaged, and no brakes, without rolling back at all. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-questions-re-manual-transmissions/285262/3 "2005-01-17T23:49:48Z")
What **Fuji** said. As to this: _Driving forward, obviously, once I have the car in motion I can let the clutch out. However, when I do the same in reverse, the car stalls. Am I doing something wrong?_ – It’s a virtual certainty you’re simply not going fast enough in reverse at the time, perhaps with good reason. Get a space where you have plenty of room to back up without fear of anything or anyone getting in your way, and you can get up to speed enough to have the clutch pedal fully up in reverse. Then you can experiment to see how slow you can go without stalling. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-questions-re-manual-transmissions/285262/4 "2005-01-17T23:53:39Z")
Well a lot of it is because in my experience reverse is geared higher than 1st gear. If you are starting on flat land at 1st gear you can let the clutch out completely just about as quickly as you can. Pretty much as long as you aren’t coming to a complete stop you won’t stall out in 1st gear. Reverse on the other hand I’ve noticed you need probably almost 2nd gearish rpm/speed levels to be able to release it, and I don’t know about most but I tend to not go that fast in reverse. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-questions-re-manual-transmissions/285262/5 "2005-01-17T23:56:40Z")
Also as someone that has driven manual transmissions all his life I definitely recommend making use of the hand/parking brake when you’ve come to a complete stop on a very steep hill. Once a few weeks ago when I was sleepy and not thinking correctly I was going up a ridiculously steep hill near my home and nearly stalled out cause I was in 2nd, ended up having to come to a complete stop. Absent mindedly I just approached the hill as though it was any other normal hill and tried to get started again from 1st, ended up burning the clutch a bit and then made up the hill. Realizing about half way that I wasn’t thinking clearly ;). Definitely would have been better on the clutch to have used the ebrake in that case. Luckily I have a new clutch in it with a 1 year warranty. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-questions-re-manual-transmissions/285262/6 "2005-01-18T01:04:04Z")
In a lot of cases, it’s just not necessary to completely let out the clutch in reverse. If you’re backing out of a parking space, a little engine speed, get moving, push the clutch back in, let momentum take care of the rest. If you where to let out the clutch completely in a parking lot in reverse, you would probably be going to fast to soon. Or simply stall the engine. Re: the parking brake on the hill. Good on you that you don’t need it. It’s really for extreme situations. You’ll probably burn the clutch more doing that, than if you roll a tiny bit and get moving. I think your user manual is referring to slipping the clutch to keep from rolling while WAITING on a step hill. That’s a no-no. Emergency brake? OK, but just using the regular brakes is fine. If you know your car, and the hill is not extreme you really shouldn’t have to do this. I will, when I have to back up my steep driveway to hook up my trailer, do the parking brake method. Say when I need 1" to make the connection. ---
**Author:** ![snailboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/97f17d/32.png) [@snailboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snailboy)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-questions-re-manual-transmissions/285262/7 "2005-01-18T01:21:04Z")
If on a grade, I recommend engaging the clutch partially before releasing the brake (not before you’re ready to go though). This will prevent the car from rolling back, or at least reduce it, while you press the throttle and completely engage the clutch. If you’re on a steep hill and there’s a car close behind you, it may be better to just use the parking brake method though. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-questions-re-manual-transmissions/285262/8 "2005-01-18T01:32:50Z")
It seems to me much safer and easier on your transmission to engage the hand brake when stopped on an incline. This is always how I’ve been taught to do it, and it’s easy to get the car moving without any rollback whatsoever. When stopped, take the car out of gear and engage the handbrake. When you’re about to go foward, just shift into first until you feel the clutch just start to bite, release the handbrake, and you’re on your way with no backward motion and less wear on your clutch than by balancing the car up an incline. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-questions-re-manual-transmissions/285262/9 "2005-01-18T03:19:35Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Re: the parking brake on the hill. Good on you that you don’t need it. It’s really for extreme situations. You’ll probably burn the clutch more doing that, than if you roll a tiny bit and get moving. No. It’s more noticeably helpful in extreme situations, but there’s no reason not to use it all the time. It’s no more prone to causing clutch wear, in fact would cause less clutch wear (naturally it’s assumed that the driver’s timing and coordination is correct). For some reason it’s not routinely taught here in the U.S., but I understand that it’s the norm in the U.K., and I believe one could fail a driving test there by not using the technique. ---
**Author:** ![dauerbach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c2a13f/32.png) [@dauerbach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dauerbach)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-questions-re-manual-transmissions/285262/10 "2005-01-18T03:39:12Z")
Remeber the great “Hill Holder” that Subaru had for awhile? When on a hill you would put the car in neutral and press down on the break and the car would hold still. Anyone know how that worked and why they stopped making them? ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-questions-re-manual-transmissions/285262/11 "2005-01-18T03:41:20Z")
When I’m on a hill, I put the car in neutral and my foot on the foot brake. When I have to start going, I put the clutch in, shift into first, take my foot off the brake and go quickly onto the gas. Even on really “extreme” hills, I can get started with essentially no rollback. I don’t see what the problem is. It’s not as if I’m slipping the clutch to keep the car on the hill… ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-questions-re-manual-transmissions/285262/12 "2005-01-18T04:18:36Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > When I’m on a hill, I put the car in neutral and my foot on the foot brake. > > When I have to start going, I put the clutch in, shift into first, take my foot off the brake and go quickly onto the gas. Even on really “extreme” hills, I can get started with essentially no rollback. > > I don’t see what the problem is. It’s not as if I’m slipping the clutch to keep the car on the hill… I don’t think there’s a problem with that. For me, it’s easier to do it with the hand brake. I can’t do it with foot-brake only without getting some rollback. But if you can, hey, use whatever way you’re comfortable with. AFAIK, as long as you’re not balancing on the clutch and throttle, you’re not needlessly putting wear on your car. ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-questions-re-manual-transmissions/285262/13 "2005-01-18T04:50:59Z")
> [@dauerbach](#): > > Remeber the great “Hill Holder” that Subaru had for awhile? When on a hill you would put the car in neutral and press down on the break and the car would hold still. Anyone know how that worked and why they stopped making them? Studebaker also used to offer a hill holder, back in the 1950s. They don’t make them anymore (at least partly) because they’re out of business. I don’t know about Subaru though; wish I did. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-questions-re-manual-transmissions/285262/14 "2005-01-18T05:39:49Z")
There’s a very simple reason for using the parking brake when stationary for any length of time (and not just on a hill): if you’re only holding the car by the clutch and footbrake, another car hitting you from behind will send you crashing into one in front, as one or both of your feet slip off the pedals. Far less damage will be likely to occur if the parking brake is on. And I suspect that there’s people here who are underestimating the amount of rollback that’s happening when they’re jumping off the brake on a hill… ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-questions-re-manual-transmissions/285262/15 "2005-01-18T07:22:59Z")
> [@TellMeI'mNotCrazy](#): > > The second question is, the user’s manual for the car tells me that when I am on a hill, not to prevent rollback by letting the clutch partially out, but to use the emergency brake instead. . . What you want to avoid is using the clutch to hold the car on a hill. That is, if you’re at a stop you should use the brake to prevent rollback, rather than feathering the clutch. Using the clutch to hold the car on a hill will wear out the clutch very quickly, and it’s an expensive repair. On the other hand, whether to use the hand brake when getting started on a hill depends on the steepness of the grade and the driver’s skill with the clutch. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and have become good enough with the clutch that I rarely have to use the hand brake. Yet there are some places (like the top of Marin Street in Berkeley) where I use the hand brake anyway - it’s just too risky not to. Another tip: when the car is stopped for any length of time (e.g. at a red light), put the car in neutral and let out the clutch. This will save wear on the clutch throwout bearing, a part that’s about as expensive to replace as the clutch itself (because most of the cost is in the labor of removing and replacing the transmission). ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-questions-re-manual-transmissions/285262/16 "2005-01-18T09:25:56Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > There’s a very simple reason for using the parking brake when stationary for any length of time (and not just on a hill): if you’re only holding the car by the clutch and footbrake, another car hitting you from behind will send you crashing into one in front, as one or both of your feet slip off the pedals. Far less damage will be likely to occur if the parking brake is on. > > And I suspect that there’s people here who are underestimating the amount of rollback that’s happening when they’re jumping off the brake on a hill… I think so too. As **Gary T** correctly pointed out, we’re taught to use the handbrake _routinely_ in the UK, and while I’ll admit that since passing my test I don’t necessarily use it _exactly_ as I was taught 😉 , it definitely gives more control when moving off – especially on a hill. Something I’ve noticed before, in fact, is the number of people in the US who refer to it as the “emergency” brake, and I wonder if this accounts for their reluctance to use what is, after all, a pretty important and useful control. Or perhaps they call it that because they aren’t taught how to use it, and they don’t see its value except in an emergency. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-questions-re-manual-transmissions/285262/17 "2005-01-18T09:47:11Z")
It is the same in Australia. We are taught to use the handbrake routinely. When I got my licence I had to do a hill start using the handbrake and you were expected to do it without rolling back at all. I have heard (but have no idea if it is true) that London bus drivers for their test used to have to stop on a hill; the examiner then placed a matchbox behind a rear wheel and the bus had to drive off without crushing it. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-questions-re-manual-transmissions/285262/18 "2005-01-18T09:57:16Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > Something I’ve noticed before, in fact, is the number of people in the US who refer to it as the “emergency” brake That’s worrying - the _last_ thing you should think of using in an emergency is the handbrake (unless risking an uncontrolled four-wheel skid is your prefered emergency). ---
**Author:** ![brad\_d](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@brad\_d](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brad_d)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-questions-re-manual-transmissions/285262/19 "2005-01-18T09:58:48Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > Something I’ve noticed before, in fact, is the number of people in the US who refer to it as the “emergency” brake, and I wonder if this accounts for their reluctance to use what is, after all, a pretty important and useful control. Or perhaps they call it that because they aren’t taught how to use it, and they don’t see its value except in an emergency. I think vehicle owner’s manuals here used to refer to it as the _emergency brake_, but the preferred term now seems to be _parking brake_. That name doesn’t really conjure visions of using it in the course of normal driving, either. Here, the normal procedure is the release the parking brake just after starting the engine, set it just before turning the car off, and never touch it in between. Several years later my dad taught me to drive a stick, and he did teach me the parking brake technique for starting on hills. It was quite handy. Now, I drive a compact pickup truck with a manual transmission and a foot-operated parking brake, so I can’t really make use of the technique anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-questions-re-manual-transmissions/285262/20 "2005-01-18T13:12:40Z")
> [@brad\_d](#): > > Now, I drive a compact pickup truck with a manual transmission and a foot-operated parking brake, so I can’t really make use of the technique anymore. It can be done to some degree if the release can be operated with the hand. You can’t gradually release it, though, so the timing is critical and it’s somewhat less useful. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-couple-of-questions-re-manual-transmissions/285262.md?page=2)