# A culinary misunderstanding **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 12, 2009, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-culinary-misunderstanding/502773 "2009-07-12T18:11:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-culinary-misunderstanding/502773/1 "2009-07-12T18:11:09Z")
My partner and I are in Paris this week, after two weeks in Provence and the Cote d’Azur (aka the French Riviera). We were strolling through the Tuileries, along side which there’s a huge carnival going on. So we decided to stop at a Greek stand for lunch. We both ordered the “Grec kabob” and received a pile of loose meat that was shaved from a big hunk of meat on a vertical spit . . . what I would put in a pita and call a “gyro.” It turns out, that’s what they call a “kebob,” and what we really wanted (meat and veggies on a skewer) is called a “brochette.” They never heard of a “gyro.” (I seriously doubt these people are Greek.) I always thought “kebob” and “brochette” were synonyms. Is there a regional difference going on here? ---
**Author:** ![BorgHunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@BorgHunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BorgHunter)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-culinary-misunderstanding/502773/2 "2009-07-12T18:20:06Z")
What you were served is probably [döner kebab](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%B6ner_kebab). As for them never having heard of gyros (it’s gyros even for a single sandwich, not gyro), how did you pronounce it? If you asked for a “jye-row” or a “guy-row”, I’d be unsurprised that you got a blank look. It’s pronounced something like “yee-ros” (with a soft s sound, not a hard z sound). ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-culinary-misunderstanding/502773/3 "2009-07-12T19:01:00Z")
What you’re thinking of as a _kebab_ is _shish kebab_; kebab itself just means grilled or broiled meat. Shish kebab is served on a skewer, döner kebab is cooked on a vertical spit, and there are others. _Gyros_ doesn’t mean a sandwich, it’s just Greek for döner kebab; the sandwich is _pita gyros_, though even Greeks will just call it gyros if they don’t eat it any other way. The reason they called it a _grec kebab_ is that in Paris, a kebab sandwich is called a Greek sandwich, and this guy was covering his bases. And, yeah, the French would never call a _brochette_ a shish kebab! ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-culinary-misunderstanding/502773/4 "2009-07-12T19:20:49Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > What you’re thinking of as a _kebab_ is _shish kebab_; kebab itself just means grilled or broiled meat. Shish kebab is served on a skewer, döner kebab is cooked on a vertical spit, and there are others. _Gyros_ doesn’t mean a sandwich, it’s just Greek for döner kebab; the sandwich is _pita gyros_, though even Greeks will just call it gyros if they don’t eat it any other way. > > The reason they called it a _grec kebab_ is that in Paris, a kebab sandwich is called a Greek sandwich, and this guy was covering his bases. And, yeah, the French would never call a _brochette_ a shish kebab! Most kebab meats are cooked on a skewer (but not necessarily). The meat that the OP had was also cooked on a skewer, so technically it was a kebab. They just carved the chunks off of it and served it as doner kebab. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-culinary-misunderstanding/502773/5 "2009-07-12T19:31:18Z")
This may be better suited to Cafe Society than GQ. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![SmashTheState](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@SmashTheState](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmashTheState)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-culinary-misunderstanding/502773/6 "2009-07-12T19:35:57Z")
Around here they’re not called gyros, they’re called donairs. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-culinary-misunderstanding/502773/7 "2009-07-12T19:57:16Z")
> [@SmashTheState](#): > > Around here they’re not called gyros, they’re called donairs. Gyro - Greek for rotate or turn Donair - Turkish for rotate or turn Turkish is more common in Europe; in the USA, at least most places I’ve been, the Greek is more common. Toppings and the meat are slightly different between the two, as is the bread. But it’s the same concept. I figure that’s the real reason why the Greeks and Turks don’t historically get along. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-culinary-misunderstanding/502773/8 "2009-07-12T20:58:12Z")
> [@BorgHunter](#): > > What you were served is probably [döner kebab](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%B6ner_kebab). As for them never having heard of gyros (it’s gyros even for a single sandwich, not gyro), how did you pronounce it? If you asked for a “jye-row” or a “guy-row”, I’d be unsurprised that you got a blank look. It’s pronounced something like “yee-ros” (with a soft s sound, not a hard z sound). I pronounced it “yee-row,” and even spelled it (yeah, I should have added the s). They never heard of it. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-culinary-misunderstanding/502773/9 "2009-07-12T21:05:44Z")
Anyone else get a macabre image at hearing ‘donor’ kebab? ‘Motorcycle crash! Quick! Start the rotisserie!’ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-culinary-misunderstanding/502773/10 "2009-07-12T21:19:06Z")
I was thinking “Donner pass” kebab, which, really, is even more horrifying than your suggestion **Johnny** ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-culinary-misunderstanding/502773/11 "2009-07-12T21:23:53Z")
Donner, party of 86… 85… 84… 83… ---
**Author:** ![Electric\_Warrior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@Electric\_Warrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electric_Warrior)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-culinary-misunderstanding/502773/12 "2009-07-12T22:29:54Z")
I believe this is a US/Europe (not counting Greece) difference. I never encountered Doner Kebab before I traveled to Spain, at which point I fell utterly in love with it. Mmmm, Durum Kebab. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-culinary-misunderstanding/502773/13 "2009-07-13T04:31:57Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I was thinking “Donner pass” kebab, which, really, is even more horrifying than your suggestion **Johnny** Or worse yet . . . a Dahmer kabob. ---
**Author:** ![Walkabout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walkabout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walkabout)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-culinary-misunderstanding/502773/14 "2009-07-13T12:57:26Z")
I find it odd that someone in Paris wouldn’t have heard of a gyro - they’re all over the place in the [Latin Quarter](http://kimncris.com/travel/legyros.jpg). The best gyro I ever had was from one of those stands on Rue de la Harpe. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-culinary-misunderstanding/502773/15 "2009-07-13T14:28:42Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Donner, party of 86… 85… 84… 83… [The Ballad of Alfred Packer](http://www.emusic.com/album/Phil-Ochs-Broadside-Tapes-1-MP3-Download/10864464.html) … In the state of colorado In the year of seventy-four They crossed the san juan mountains Growing hungry to the core. Their guide was alferd packer And they trusted him too long: For his character was weak And his appetite was strong. They called him a murderer, a cannibal, a thief; It just doesn’t pay to eat anything but government-inspected beef. Along the gunnison river An indian camp they spied. An indian chief approached them, To stop them he did try. He warned them of the danger In the snow that lay around, But the danger was in packer, For his hunger knew now bound. They called him a murderer, a cannibal, a thief; It just doesn’t pay to eat anything but government-inspected beef. Two cold months went slowly by; Packer came back alone. “my comrades they all froze to death, I’m starving,” he did moan. The indian chief knew how he lied, He spat upon the ground, For packer’s belly hung out all over his belt: He’d gained some thirty pounds. They called him a murderer, a cannibal, a thief; It just doesn’t pay to eat anything but government-inspected beef. Well for nine long years he ran away But finally he was tried. He claimed he didn’t kill them, He only ate their hide. That county had six dem-o-crats Until that man arrived. Well only one lives on today: He ate the other five. They called him a murderer, a cannibal, a thief; It just doesn’t pay to eat anything but government-inspected beef. Eighteen years he stayed in jail, It was a dreadful fate, For he suffered indigestion Every time he ate. Still, it’s hard to blame this hungry guy Who went searchin’ for the mines, For when he ate his friends He’d never heard of duncan hines. ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-culinary-misunderstanding/502773/16 "2009-07-17T00:11:14Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I was thinking “Donner pass” kebab, which, really, is even more horrifying than your suggestion **Johnny** There is (or was) a kebab takeaway shop here in Glasgow, located just at a place where my 'bus tended to get snarled up in slow traffic, so I always had plenty of time, idly looking out of the window, to think “eek” at the menu item named “Donner Kebab”. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-culinary-misunderstanding/502773/17 "2009-07-17T00:27:31Z")
FYI, here’s a [link](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/15/dining/15gyro.html) to an article from yesterday’s New York Times on the history of the gyro in the US. (By the way, it distinguishes gyros from doner kebabs and shawarma because gyros are made from minced meatloaf while doner kebabs and shawarma are made from sliced meat.) ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/96bed5/32.png) [@Cat\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Jones)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-culinary-misunderstanding/502773/18 "2009-07-17T06:18:01Z")
> [@Walkabout](#): > > I find it odd that someone in Paris wouldn’t have heard of a gyro - they’re all over the place in the [Latin Quarter](http://kimncris.com/travel/legyros.jpg). The best gyro I ever had was from one of those stands on Rue de la Harpe. Yes but they’re not galled “gyros” :smack: It’s a “grec”, literally a “Greek”. (As a Brit I’d never heard of a gyro till opening this thread btw.) That’s what they’re called here. I’ve never heard anyone use the word “kebap” (or other variant spellings) when speaking French either. You have a “sandwich grec”, bit of salad and meat in pita bread with or without chips (sorry, fries) or an “assiette grec” (lit. Greek plate/dish) which has the meat served with salad, fries, a pearl barley type thing and pita on the side. Choice of sauce is “sauce blanche” (lit. white) or the hot “harissa”. The meat used here is “real” lamb as opposed to the processed version you get in British donners - not sure what is used in US gyros. (On preview just seen **Dewey Finn’s post)** 3 mins from the flat we have one Grec where we get our take-out grecs - we no longer need to order, they know - but then they only do grecs. 5 mins from the flat is where we get our eat-in grecs - they also serve other “assiette” such a chicken marinaded in different sauces (& oddly enough, pizza). The husband is more of a specialist than I, but any grec related questions I’m here for you 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BleizDu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@BleizDu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BleizDu)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-culinary-misunderstanding/502773/19 "2009-07-17T07:38:09Z")
> [@Cat\_Jones](#): > > Yes but they’re not galled “gyros” :smack: > It’s a “grec”, literally a “Greek”. (As a Brit I’d never heard of a gyro till opening this thread btw.) That’s what they’re called here. I’ve never heard anyone use the word “kebap” (or other variant spellings) when speaking French either. Heh, although I have never heard or seen the word gyro used here (I’m french), I do have to say that it’s never been called un grec in the many many shops I have been to in the north and west of France. The first time I heard it called a grec was in a rap song where the action takes place in the paris area. I’ve always seen them called kebab, usually as you pointed available eiher as a dish or a sandwish. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/96bed5/32.png) [@Cat\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Jones)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-culinary-misunderstanding/502773/20 "2009-07-17T17:34:51Z")
> [@Lazz](#): > > Heh, although I have never heard or seen the word gyro used here (I’m french), I do have to say that it’s never been called un grec in the many many shops I have been to in the north and west of France. The first time I heard it called a grec was in a rap song where the action takes place in the paris area. > I’ve always seen them called kebab, usually as you pointed available eiher as a dish or a sandwish. So essentially, if I want to avoid being treated like a stuck up Parisian I should ask for a kebab anywhere else ? 😉 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-culinary-misunderstanding/502773.md?page=2)