# A delish restaurant - but the owner takes the tips. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 8, 2013, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-delish-restaurant-but-the-owner-takes-the-tips/675855 "2013-12-08T22:53:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-delish-restaurant-but-the-owner-takes-the-tips/675855/21 "2013-12-09T08:51:42Z")
Something like this happened in Oakland’s Chinatown years ago. Many of the restaurants there were keeping the tips, rather than turning them over to the waitstaff. A local lawyer found out about it and represented a group of waiters pro bono to get them a monetary settlement. ---
**Author:** ![sandra\_nz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@sandra\_nz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sandra_nz)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-delish-restaurant-but-the-owner-takes-the-tips/675855/22 "2013-12-09T09:25:06Z")
I originally answered “I’d still eat there but leave no tip, feck 'em” but that’s not the right answer. I would not support a restaurant that allowed diners to tip under the mistaken assumption that the tip goes to the server, only to have the tip line the owners pockets. That said, if the restaurant clearly stated that its policy is to pay its servers at least minimum wage and that any tips given would not go to the servers, then I would have no problem with that concept. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-delish-restaurant-but-the-owner-takes-the-tips/675855/23 "2013-12-09T10:06:00Z")
> [@Marion\_Wormer](#): > > I’ve read that in the US, the IRS assumes the waitstaff is getting tips and charts their income accordingly. If the owner is taking the tips and the staff is being treated by the IRS as if they get tips, the owner will find it hard to keep staff. > > I don’t see that going or not going will affect the owner’s actions at all. Someone once told me how they were audited and grilled by the IRS on the low amount of tips they claimed, the agents actually said we have the income claimed by your coworkers and yours is thousands less than all of them. They worked in a bar and the other servers would flirt their asses off and on the male customers to get tips, they couldn’t flirt out of a paper bag. I believed them and they said the IRS had no proof so had to believe them too. (they really couldn’t) ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-delish-restaurant-but-the-owner-takes-the-tips/675855/24 "2013-12-09T11:49:24Z")
That is so outside of the US norm that unless there was a statement of their policy posted clearly where everyone could read it, say on the bottom of the menu in type large enough to be read in dim light, I would consider that the owner was taking advantage of his waitstaff and his customers and go elsewhere. The owner does not get tipped, period. His money comes from the price charged to the customer. The only way this would work ethicly would be if they made clear that the waitstaff was paid a living wage by the restaurant and thus tips were neither expected nor encouraged. Just to be clear, Europe doesn’t have a non-tipping culture but rather a lower-tipping culture. A standard tip here is to round up to the next euro and add enough that it totals between 5 and 10 percent. That episode of Kitchen Nightmares was staggering. What a couple of nutcases! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-delish-restaurant-but-the-owner-takes-the-tips/675855/25 "2013-12-09T15:23:22Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Nope, I don’t want my money going to a thief. (BTW, when you say “paid by the hour”, do you mean the federal minimum wage, or the just the same one waitstaff get? Because waiters DO still get paid by the hour, I believe – it’s just a hell of a lot less than the average minimum wage) According to [this](http://uk.eonline.com/news/437583/amy-s-baking-company-s-employee-contract-exposed-the-8-most-insane-rules-at-the-infamous-kitchen-nightmares-restaurant) the restaurant in question has this to say on the subject in its employee contract: > [@](#): > > 1. The wait staff understands that any and all ‘tips’ are property of the ‘house’. By signing this contract you agree that you willing accept a payment $\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ per hour instead of tips. On how much this actually is; Having realised that they were probably one of the only eateries in the nation to have this payment structure they have [rescinded](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2358541/Gordon-Ramsays-difficult-couple-finally-speak-death-threats-rows--scandal-unpaid-tips.html) this policy; > [@](#): > > However, Amy admitted: ‘Since the show, we recognise the outcry and now we’re giving the servers their tips. It would still work out in their favour to be be paid hourly, but now they’re guaranteed to make a minimum of $7.80 an hour and we make sure they go home with more than that, 100 per cent.’ ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-delish-restaurant-but-the-owner-takes-the-tips/675855/26 "2013-12-09T15:41:26Z")
If they were upfront about it, then sure I wouldn’t mind (I also wouldn’t tip). If they didn’t say a word and nobody told me that tips went to the owner, then I’d be mad as hell. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-delish-restaurant-but-the-owner-takes-the-tips/675855/27 "2013-12-09T15:48:57Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > On how much this actually is; Having realised that they were probably one of the only eateries in the nation to have this payment structure they have [rescinded](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2358541/Gordon-Ramsays-difficult-couple-finally-speak-death-threats-rows--scandal-unpaid-tips.html) this policy; They were probably also advised by their lawyer it violates the terms of the FLSA, and they could potentially have had an awkward conversation with the Feds over it. The Dept of Labor is pretty clear on it - even if you have a policy on no tipping, tips that customers do happen to leave go to the employees. The employment contract doesn’t really matter if it violates US law. E.g. you can’t legally force employees to work below minimum wage via contract. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-delish-restaurant-but-the-owner-takes-the-tips/675855/28 "2013-12-09T15:56:46Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > If they were upfront about it, then sure I wouldn’t mind (I also wouldn’t tip). > > If they didn’t say a word and nobody told me that tips went to the owner, then I’d be mad as hell. In the show [Ramsey is gobsmacked](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=c6V6Qe4JBco#t=750) to find out that the owner takes the tips. Later on he [tells a customer](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=c6V6Qe4JBco#t=1615) that a $10 tip he left went to the owner. The customer reacts as you’d expect - “That’s horrible”, so one can safely assume it wasn’t exactly advertised. On previous; @ **Great Antibob** , that isn’t even my favourite, which would be #20 from that link: > [@](#): > > By singing this contract you are herby accepting that you will be employed exclusively … And shall not work for any competitor within a 50 mile radius of ABC within one year of termination or voluntary Resignation, without prior authorization from ABC. Nor shall you be allowed to open your own business of the same type, within the above mentioned radius. How exactly this is supposed to be enforceable is anyone’s guess. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-delish-restaurant-but-the-owner-takes-the-tips/675855/29 "2013-12-09T16:05:32Z")
I actually know a restaurant like this. One of my son’s friends works there as a server and he’s told us to not bother leaving a tip because the owner takes all of the tips. He does get paid a little more than minimum wage, so no labor law is being broken, I believe. But there are no signs that let patrons know that tips are confiscated, so I have to assume that many people leave tips for their servers, but are unknowingly adding to the owner’s pocketbook. So, I will either leave no tip or surreptitiously give the server a few bucks hand-to-hand. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-delish-restaurant-but-the-owner-takes-the-tips/675855/30 "2013-12-09T16:15:52Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > He does get paid a little more than minimum wage, so no labor law is being broken, I believe. Still illegal under the FLSA, actually. Though I doubt anybody knows enough to really kick up much of a fuss. Tips you leave for employees go to employees. Period. It wouldn’t shock me if even the employer didn’t know this, but it’s a slimy, reprehensible practice, in any case. What is allowed is a pool arrangement where tips are split among all the people who might be tipped (bussers, wait staff, cooks, etc), but this policy must be told to employees ahead of time. This can result in some of your tip money getting shared out to other people. What is also allowed is for an employer to pay less than $7.25 an hour - though no lower than $2.13 - if they credit tips against wages and jump through the appropriate hoops (mainly letting employees know about it ahead of time). ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-delish-restaurant-but-the-owner-takes-the-tips/675855/31 "2013-12-09T18:28:33Z")
Why does the question assume tips have to go to the owner? I would have my waiter bring me back my change, and I put the cash tip directly into the waiter’s hand. This ought to be a poll option, but isn’t. Now… if the waiter chooses to turn this over to the owner, that’s their own business. It’s not my ethical dilemma anymore. Even waitstaff should be treated as responsible adults who can decide for themselves where they want to work. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-delish-restaurant-but-the-owner-takes-the-tips/675855/32 "2013-12-09T18:33:25Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > Why does the question assume tips have to go to the owner? I would have my waiter bring me back my change, and I put the cash tip directly into the waiter’s hand. This ought to be a poll option, but isn’t. > > Now… if the waiter chooses to turn this over to the owner, that’s their own business. It’s not my ethical dilemma anymore. Even waitstaff should be treated as responsible adults who can decide for themselves where they want to work. Isn’t that just analogous to still leaving a tip? Otherwise all the waiters would just do that anyway. Judging by the restaurant that inspired our hypothetical eatery, a waiter would probably be compelled to turn over said tip or lose their job; see the contractual clause quoted above. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-delish-restaurant-but-the-owner-takes-the-tips/675855.md?page=1)