# "A Diet For All Reasons" by Michael Klaper, M.D. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 23, 2004, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675 "2004-02-23T14:59:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675/81 "2004-03-01T17:26:45Z")
Why don’t _you_ read post #63? If you’re drawing blood while you’re milking, you’re doing it wrong. So what _do_ you think about all those references to “the land of milk and honey” in the bible and book of mormon? Are they satanic mistranslations or what? ---
**Author:** ![Sheri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sheri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sheri)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675/82 "2004-03-01T18:07:07Z")
> [@Truth Seeker](#): > > Why don’t _you_ read post #63? If you’re drawing blood while you’re milking, you’re doing it wrong. > > Post #63: Also, notice that in the W. of W., it says “used” or “use”. How do we “use” animals for food? Meat and milk products. > > So what _do_ you think about all those references to “the land of milk and honey” in the bible and book of mormon? Are they satanic mistranslations or what? It’s a term that means prosperity. There are several things that are symbolic and not literal in the scriptures. For instance, the moon being turned to blood when Christ comes again. Even the word “meat” has a different meaning: From my Bible Dictionary- " **Meat.** Anything to eat; food; a meal (not necessarily flesh) (Gen. 1:29-30; Lev. 22:11, 13; 2 Sam. 13:5; Isa. 62:8; Ezek. 47:12; Heb 3:17; Acts 16:34). "In KJV meat is sometimes used to connote an offering made of grain, i.e., ‘meat offering,’ but no flesh is involved, as in Ex. 29:41; 30:9; Lev. 2:1-15. Cf. Alma 8:21-22. “ **Meat Offering** or more properly **Meal Offering**. Heb. _minchah_, consisted chiefly of grain (or flour and cakes made from grain)…” That is straight from my LDS KJV Bible Dictionary, word for word. Religion is full of symbolism - a land flowing with milk and honey is one of those symbolisms which means prosperity. ---
**Author:** ![Sheri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sheri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sheri)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675/83 "2004-03-01T18:11:01Z")
Meant for this to be seperate from your post, Truth Seeker: This is what I was refering to in post #63: Also, notice that in the W. of W., it says “used” or “use”. How do we “use” animals for food? Meat and milk products. ---
**Author:** ![Sheri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sheri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sheri)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675/84 "2004-03-01T18:29:55Z")
Yes, I know I said I was done “witnessing about veganism”. Just answering questions _now_. ---
**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675/85 "2004-03-01T18:48:35Z")
> [@Sheri](#): > > Religion is full of symbolism - a land flowing with milk and honey is one of those symbolisms which means prosperity. Very good. Now _why_ is “the land of milk and honey” symbolic of prosperity? ---
**Author:** ![Sheri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sheri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sheri)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675/86 "2004-03-01T19:11:30Z")
Same reason that meat means grain and not flesh. Milk and honey mean flowing prosperity. If you know anything of the LDS religion, you know it’s full of symbolism, this is just another one of those symbolisms. As Isaiah said, “neither is there any end of their treasures” (2 Ne 12:7). Abundance/_flowing_ like milk and honey. How about hell? Is it really a lake of fire and brimstone, or is it like a lake of fire and brimstone? Just one of several references: 2 Ne 9:16 “…and their torment is as a lake of fire and brimstone…” This is referring to how things will feel spiritually, not physically. So, once again, milk and honey equal flowing prosperity/abundance. ---
**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675/87 "2004-03-01T20:11:53Z")
> [@Sheri](#): > > So, once again, milk and honey equal flowing prosperity/abundance. And of course, you weren’t supposed to actually _do_ anything with all this milk and honey. Well, you’ve certainly convinced me! Yes indeed, I certainly want _my_ prosperity flowing like honey! And the milk. Ahh, the milk. Of couse, you’d never actually _see_ milk in the Vegan land of milk and honey since it would pass directly from mother animal to baby animal. But it would, I suppose, certainly flow – if, of course, you happened to be a baby animal. I have to wonder, though. From what I’ve seen, the Vegan promised land is really more a land of fruits and nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Sheri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sheri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sheri)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675/88 "2004-03-01T20:50:16Z")
Now here’s a question for you. Are you sure that milk and honey actually mean what you think they mean, scripturally that is? As we’ve seen, there can be different meanings attached to things, i.e. meat meaning grain or any kind of meal, and even fruit - as it says in Genesis. There are many places in the scriptures where the word “meat” is used, but the word doesn’t mean flesh. But we may think it means flesh, because of how the word “meat” is commonly used today. Hence, there is misunderstanding. Just something to consider. ---
**Author:** ![nashiitashii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7c8e57/32.png) [@nashiitashii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nashiitashii)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675/89 "2004-03-01T21:37:22Z")
> [@Sheri](#): > > Everything I’ve just read from all these different posts is not new to me. I’ve heard it ALL before. I’m not here to argue these things out. All I did was share a video that I’ve found to be true (because I put it to the test in my own life). If you really want to know what he says, I suggest you get the tape. If not, oh well. But if you’re not vegan, then you have had no experience with it and how it makes the body feel. I am healthier now than I’ve ever been in my life. I’m speaking from pure experience here - not from a book or tape or someone else’s words. I put it to the test. That was the only way for me to truly know for myself. Until you have lived both side, you cannot truly know - you’re only taking somebody’s word for it. > > Sheri There have been nutritional studies done that imply that a person’s dietary needs vary more than you’re assuming. They stated that persons whose parents or grandparents recently emigrated from their homeland are more likely to be healthier on a diet consisting of the traditional foods eaten in their area of origin. I can say for a fact that I feel better and perform better when I stick closer to the diet of my ethnic origins. (Just in case you’re curious, my mother is Icelandic, and my father’s parents are Finnish and Russian. I work better when my diet consists of meat, fish, dairy products and a limited amount of vegetables.) Milk is only bad for people who have any sort of intolerance for it. Some cultures have bypassed lactose intolerance due to the many generations of dairy farming that made up a large percentage of their food supplies. I’m not lactose intolerant, none of my relatives are lactose intolerant, and to imply that I was would mean I’d have to be a very rare genetic anomaly. Your doctor really only brings results for a certain number of people in the population. I’ve tried being a vegetarian; it doesn’t work for me. I always end up feeling hungry, tired and weak when I restrict meat from my diet and replace it with vegetable protein. (Yes, I do have a concept of how a vegetarian diet should work in order to get the proper nutrients. I’ve taken a college course on how nutrition works, and I paid attention.) ---
**Author:** ![Sheri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sheri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sheri)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675/90 "2004-03-01T22:36:53Z")
> [@Mirrored Indigo Shadows](#): > > There have been nutritional studies done that imply that a person’s dietary needs vary more than you’re assuming. They stated that persons whose parents or grandparents recently emigrated from their homeland are more likely to be healthier on a diet consisting of the traditional foods eaten in their area of origin. > > I can say for a fact that I feel better and perform better when I stick closer to the diet of my ethnic origins. (Just in case you’re curious, my mother is Icelandic, and my father’s parents are Finnish and Russian. I work better when my diet consists of meat, fish, dairy products and a limited amount of vegetables.) > > Milk is only bad for people who have any sort of intolerance for it. Some cultures have bypassed lactose intolerance due to the many generations of dairy farming that made up a large percentage of their food supplies. I’m not lactose intolerant, none of my relatives are lactose intolerant, and to imply that I was would mean I’d have to be a very rare genetic anomaly. > > Your doctor really only brings results for a certain number of people in the population. I’ve tried being a vegetarian; it doesn’t work for me. I always end up feeling hungry, tired and weak when I restrict meat from my diet and replace it with vegetable protein. (Yes, I do have a concept of how a vegetarian diet should work in order to get the proper nutrients. I’ve taken a college course on how nutrition works, and I paid attention.) Then you must know about The Food Guide Pyramid and where meat and dairy products are listed on there. Click here and scroll down for a reminder: [http://www.pueblo.gsa.gov/cic\_text/food/food-pyramid/main.htm](http://www.pueblo.gsa.gov/cic_text/food/food-pyramid/main.htm) For those who choose to consume animal products, The Food Guide Pyramid is a well-known source and shows where animal products fall in relation to plant food. This goes for all those Atkins Dieters out there too. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675/91 "2004-03-01T22:41:18Z")
Do I hear a motion that we stop talking about the meat? ---
**Author:** ![Sheri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sheri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sheri)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675/92 "2004-03-01T22:56:46Z")
Yes. I, for one, am getting tired of this, but also feel the need to defend my position. However, now that I’ve raised the subject of **The Food Guide Pyramid** , I’d really like to know what all those Atkin’s Dieters think about it. Basically, if I’m understanding the Atkin’s Diet correctly, it pretty much turns The Food Guide Pyramid upside down, doesn’t it? Is The Food Guide Pyramid something that’s held in popular high esteem, or is there a problem with it? This is how I eat, except that I use nuts, seeds & legumes in the animal products group, which are listed there too. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675/93 "2004-03-01T23:07:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*originally posted by \ ***Sherri** > > The Food Guide Pyramid is a well-known source and shows where animal products fall in relation to plant food. No it doesn’t. It simply has foods with more servings per day reccomended closer to the bottom. > [@](#): > > \*originally posted by \ ***Sherri** > > Everything I’ve just read from all these different posts is not new to me. I’ve heard it ALL before. **Sherri** , you posted the above quote after **Derleth** showed you how the intestine length argument is bunk. Does this mean you really believe intestine length shows evidence that we are meant to be vegetarians? Why are you bringing up the Atkins diet now? The opposite of a vegetarian is one who eats meat at least sometimes, not someone on Atkins. Lets stick to the topic. ---
**Author:** ![Sheri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sheri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sheri)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675/94 "2004-03-01T23:28:38Z")
> [@x-ray vision](#): > > No it doesn’t. It simply has foods with more servings per day recommended closer to the bottom. **Exactly**! The Food Guide Pyramid is telling us to eat more plant-based food servings than animal-based food servings. I want to know how the Atkin’s Dieters feel about this. Or do Atkin’s Dieters just throw The Food Guide Pyramid out the window altogether? And for the record, I don’t believe that the intestine length argument is bunk. I’ve seen both sides and that is my own conclusion/opinion. I want to know what the Atkin’s Dieters think of The Food Guide Pyramid, because a few have posted here in protest to a vegan diet. So now it’s my turn to ask a question, and a very good question at that. **So, now I want to know about The Food Guide Pyramid in relation to Atkin’s Dieters. What’s the deal?** ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675/95 "2004-03-01T23:33:40Z")
I suggest you start another thread then. The Atkins diet works. So does the Ornish diet. One consists mainly of proteins and fats, the other carbs. What an Atkins dieter does to lose weight has no relevance in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Sheri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sheri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sheri)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675/96 "2004-03-01T23:38:57Z")
> [@x-ray vision](#): > > I suggest you start another thread then. The Atkins diet works. So does the Ornish diet. One consists mainly of proteins and fats, the other carbs. What an Atkins dieter does to lose weight has no relevance in this thread. So the Atkin’s Dieters _DO_ throw The Food Guide Pyramid out the window. I’m not interested in if the diet works or not. And I’m not interested in starting another thread. Just wanted a simple question answered and you’ve done that for me. Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675/97 "2004-03-01T23:43:26Z")
You didn’t know that the Atkins diet consists of mostly protein and fats? ---
**Author:** ![Sheri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sheri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sheri)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675/98 "2004-03-01T23:48:29Z")
> [@x-ray vision](#): > > You didn’t know that the Atkins diet consists of mostly protein and fats? I was just making sure that I understood it correctly. Now that you have confirmed what I thought to be true, I see that the Atkin’s Diet does ignore The Food Guide Pyramid. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675/99 "2004-03-01T23:50:51Z")
As do you. ---
**Author:** ![Sheri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sheri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sheri)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675/100 "2004-03-01T23:54:55Z")
> [@x-ray vision](#): > > As do you. No I do not. I just choose to replace the meat and dairy group with the other things listed there: i.e. beans, nuts, etc. However, the Atkin’s Diet completely turns The Food Guide Pyramid upside down, putting animal products in the breads/cereals/grains section. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675.md?page=6)