# "A Diet For All Reasons" by Michael Klaper, M.D. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 23, 2004, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675 "2004-02-23T14:59:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675/141 "2004-03-02T02:30:54Z")
> [@Sheri](#): > > But there is even more still that we do not know. How can we, as imperfect human beings, be so prideful in thinking that we know so much, when there is a whole entire universe that we don’t understand. There is more unknown than known and that is the bottom line, something that we must not forget in our high and mighty technological age. We’ve learned a lot, but we don’t know it all. Yes. Fine. And? The scientific method is the method by which the unknown becomes known. There is no question that science has not yet fully explained the physical universe. There is also, however, no question that science _can_ fully explain the physical universe, at least in the sense that a “scientific explanation” is properly understood. What science can do, and right now, is separate unsupported claptrap from proper science. Claims for Vegan health benefits are unsupported claptrap. This Klapper fellow’s theory about “leaky intestines” (as I understand it from its explanation here) has no scientific basis and borders on the seriously loony. There are hundreds of these kinds of baseless claims, homeopathy, Vegan health benefits, etc., etc. They all rely on personal testimony instead of actual scientific studies. There’s a good reason for this – scientific studies demonstrate conclusively that they’re completely worthless. ---
**Author:** ![Sheri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sheri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sheri)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675/142 "2004-03-02T02:32:21Z")
> [@nameless](#): > > This is infuriating. You give an argument and then fail to provide any rational justification for it, claiming that nobody will consider it. You leap into this forum, tell us all to send money for a video that will change our lives and then produce no corraborating evidence. > > Of course your evidence will be shot down. That’s how a debate works. You then pick up the pieces and continue arguing with fresh evidence (if you can find it) concede defeat (if you are so gracious) or appeal to a matter of personal faith. > > Have you anything substantial to offer us? You can find it just as easily as I can, if you’re really interested. Go to [www.google.com](http://www.google.com) - then type in “vegan”. You’ll get lots and lots of stuff to look at if you wish. But I will not bring it here, because I’ve seen what happens. This whole discussion has been fruitless. What have we accomplished? - except for the fact that you’re now infuriated. We have accomplished nothing! I am just as decided that veganism is a very good thing as I ever was, perhaps even more. And the rest are firmly rooted in their beleifs that veganism is not a good thing. So, really, in my eyes, it’s been a waste of time. ---
**Author:** ![Sheri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sheri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sheri)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675/143 "2004-03-02T02:35:56Z")
> [@Truth Seeker](#): > > There’s a good reason for this – scientific studies demonstrate conclusively that they’re completely worthless. If that’s what you think, then go ahead and think it. ---
**Author:** ![nameless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/779978/32.png) [@nameless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nameless)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675/144 "2004-03-02T02:37:30Z")
> [@Sheri](#): > > You can find it just as easily as I can, if you’re really interested. Go to [www.google.com](http://www.google.com) - then type in “vegan”. You’ll get lots and lots of stuff to look at if you wish. But I will not bring it here, because I’ve seen what happens. This whole discussion has been fruitless. What have we accomplished? - except for the fact that you’re now infuriated. We have accomplished nothing! I am just as decided that veganism is a very good thing as I ever was, perhaps even more. And the rest are firmly rooted in their beleifs that veganism is not a good thing. So, really, in my eyes, it’s been a waste of time. Are you kidding me? You expect me to research _your_ claim? No no–the burden of proof is on you. Your claim, you bring the evidence. I am assuming by your exasparation that you have given up “trying” to inject any evidence into the “debate” at hand. Fair enough. I hope you have learned something about debate tactics and that this was not a waste of your time. I, for one, have realized that time spent arguing with someone who refuses to examine the scientific evidence is time better spent elsewhere. Thank you for educating me. ---
**Author:** ![Sheri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sheri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sheri)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675/145 "2004-03-02T02:39:58Z")
> [@nameless](#): > > Are you kidding me? You expect me to research _your_ claim? No no–the burden of proof is on you. Your claim, you bring the evidence. I am assuming by your exasparation that you have given up “trying” to inject any evidence into the “debate” at hand. Fair enough. I hope you have learned something about debate tactics and that this was not a waste of your time. I, for one, have realized that time spent arguing with someone who refuses to examine the scientific evidence is time better spent elsewhere. Thank you for educating me. And thank you for giving me an education on close-mindedness. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675/146 "2004-03-02T03:17:03Z")
Sheri, you are _wayyy_ off base here. You really need to spend a LOT more time lurking here at this message board before you go any further. You have stumbled into what all of the 44,000 registered members here would agree is The Nonpareil of Internet Message Boards, one of the few places to get civilized, fascinating, well-moderated discussions of practically every subject under the sun. And–guess what? “Discussion” means “disagreement”. This is not an easy place to hang out, granted. Compared to other, quieter, cozier message boards, it’s a big noisy bar brawl. Sure, every time you post an opinion here, you’re gonna take the risk of being “shot down”, but hey, that’s the way it works here. This is not a touchy-feely “make you feel good about yourself” message board. This is a MB populated by many of the sharpest people on the planet, and like many sharp people, they have sharp tongues. But the overall tone of the place is a devotion to the Fight Against Ignorance, and if you’re gonna spend any time here, you’re gonna have to get used to the fact that there are sharpshooters in the bushes waiting to snap off a shot at any “ignorance” they think they see. And, actually, no, this doesn’t mean that we have closed minds. If you spent any time anywhere else on the boards besides right here on your own thread, you’d realize that. We’re open to being convinced, but one of the basic war cries of this place is the challenge, “Cite?” Which means that according to the unwritten rules, the person making a claim is required to go find a “cite” to prove his claim. Which means that the person making the claim is NOT allowed to say to the other people challenging the claim, “Hey, go look it up yourself on Google”. That’s not how it works here. Now, if you want, of course you can hug your feelings of persecution to yourself and console yourself with the thought that we are all just Big Meanies Who Don’t Understand, but I think that would be a shame if you went off like that, because you sound like an intelligent person, just the sort of poster who would actually fit right in here (and no, that’s really not meant to sound patronizing or anything). And, trust me, _nobody_ here really _cares_, deep down, whether you’re a Vegan, or a Vegetarian, or a Mormon, or a reptilian alien. Alll we truly care about is the Fight Against Ignorance. Facts. We love facts. So I challenge you to go read some threads, especially in Great Debates. Then come back and talk to us. Or better yet, drop this. Nothing’s being accomplished here. I suggest you start another “vegan” thread in Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675/147 "2004-03-02T03:22:11Z")
To clarify: By which I mean, “another thread just to debate the pros and cons of the vegan/vegetarian diet”. Without all the sidetracks onto LDS and Bible prophecy. ---
**Author:** ![Doc\_Nickel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@Doc\_Nickel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doc_Nickel)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675/148 "2004-03-02T08:36:59Z")
> [@Sheri](#): > > The Internet. The Library. All free. -I did just that! At the Library I picked up a copy of _Alaskan Cookbook_ by Cleveland, just chock full of recipies for halibut, elk, deer, even black bear and musk ox. The sauteed` caribou backstrap is _amazing_. I also got a copy of _Heart of the Hunter_, by Edison Marshall (a decent tome, though a tad outdated) and both _Death in the Long Grass_ and _Death in the Dark Continent_ by Peter Hathaway Capstick, both highly recommended. On the Internet, though, every time I looked up [red meat](http://www.redmeat.com/redmeat/current/index.html) I kept getting some alternative use of meat I’m pretty sure even Vegans hadn’t envisioned. But you’re right, that alone has convinced me that everything about Veganism on the Internet is the God’s Honest Truth and everything about eating meat on the Internet is an Evil Lie Spread Forth By Satan. I have seen the light, hallelujeah. ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675/149 "2004-03-02T09:12:30Z")
> [@Sheri](#): > > This whole discussion has been fruitless. ## Now you know why we eat meat. Peace. How’s that not-posting-in-this-thread-anymore working out for you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diet-for-all-reasons-by-michael-klaper-m-d/230675.md?page=7)