# A diplomat's child is not a citizen of their country? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 13, 2022, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diplomats-child-is-not-a-citizen-of-their-country/957734 "2022-01-13T17:10:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diplomats-child-is-not-a-citizen-of-their-country/957734/21 "2022-01-13T18:00:53Z")
Yes. State Department document (PDF). > **[2018-DipConImm\_v5\_Web.pdf](https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/2018-DipConImm_v5_Web.pdf)** Relevant quote: > [@](#): > > Family members forming part of the household > of diplomatic agents enjoy precisely the same > privileges and immunities as do the sponsoring > diplomatic agents.3 > > 3The United States defines members of the household to include: spouses, children until the age of 21 (until the age of 23 if they are > full-time students at an institution of higher learning), and such other persons expressly agreed to by the U.S. Department of State in extraordinary circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diplomats-child-is-not-a-citizen-of-their-country/957734/22 "2022-01-13T18:00:57Z")
No, the law implemented an amendment. > [@](#): > > **Fourteenth Amendment** : > All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. At the time, and ever since, the “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” bit was understood to specifically exclude the children of accredited diplomats. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diplomats-child-is-not-a-citizen-of-their-country/957734/23 "2022-01-13T18:02:30Z")
14th Amendment (in part): > All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. I am missing the exception for diplomats. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diplomats-child-is-not-a-citizen-of-their-country/957734/24 "2022-01-13T18:03:06Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I am missing the exception for diplomats. “Subject to the jurisdiction thereof.” ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diplomats-child-is-not-a-citizen-of-their-country/957734/25 "2022-01-13T18:03:08Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > a law undid an amendment? ISTM that the law expanded on what the amendment already said: Granting citizenship to those born in the US and subject to jurisdiction of the US. The law proceeded to delineate who was NOT subject to the jurisdiction of the US. Happens all the time, AIUI. And I suspect the SCOTUS has been fine with it for quite some time, or we’d have heard about it. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diplomats-child-is-not-a-citizen-of-their-country/957734/26 "2022-01-13T18:03:23Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > At the time, and ever since, the “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” bit was understood to specifically exclude the children of accredited diplomats. That is in the law somewhere? ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diplomats-child-is-not-a-citizen-of-their-country/957734/27 "2022-01-13T18:04:17Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > subject to the jurisdiction thereof There it is, since by the plain reading of that phrase and the plain meaning of the definition of diplomatic immunity, a diplomat’s child is not “subject to the jurisdiction thereof.” ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diplomats-child-is-not-a-citizen-of-their-country/957734/28 "2022-01-13T18:07:05Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > “Subject to the jurisdiction thereof.” A child of a diplomat is not immune from local laws. Can a 25 year-old child of a diplomat flout local laws? Is a baby as immune to local law as its parent? The parent is the diplomat. Not his/her progeny. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diplomats-child-is-not-a-citizen-of-their-country/957734/29 "2022-01-13T18:08:34Z")
This is Factual Questions. The factual answers have been provided to you. Under the Fourteenth Amendment, U.S. birthright citizenship does not and never has applied to the children of diplomats. If you want to argue about it, might I suggest opening a thread in Great Debates? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diplomats-child-is-not-a-citizen-of-their-country/957734/30 "2022-01-13T18:08:40Z")
**gnoitall** covered all that in Post #20. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diplomats-child-is-not-a-citizen-of-their-country/957734/31 "2022-01-13T18:09:57Z")
Has the Supreme Court ruled on this? Is a child of a diplomat accorded the same protection from breaking local laws as their parent is? ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diplomats-child-is-not-a-citizen-of-their-country/957734/32 "2022-01-13T18:19:34Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Has the Supreme Court ruled on this? See, for example, [_ **United States v. Wong Kim Ark** _ , 169 U.S. 649 (1898)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_Kim_Ark), an exception that proves the rule. In part, the decision reads, > [@](#): > > a child born in the United States, of parents of Chinese descent, who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of the Emperor of China, but have a permanent [domicil](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domicile_(law)) and residence in the United States, and are there carrying on business, **and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the Emperor of China**",[[5]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_Kim_Ark#cite_note-Wong_Kim_Ark_653-5) automatically became a [U.S. citizen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_in_the_United_States) at birth. > **[emphasis added]** > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Is a child of a diplomat accorded the same protection from breaking local laws as their parent is? Again, see @gnoitall’s Post #20. Also, largely irrelevant. Since the _parents_ are not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, their child does not gain birthright citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diplomats-child-is-not-a-citizen-of-their-country/957734/33 "2022-01-13T18:38:56Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Has the Supreme Court ruled on this? > > Is a child of a diplomat accorded the same protection from breaking local laws as their parent is? Why would the SC have to rule on whether or not Diplomat family members enjoy Diplomatic Immunity? The State Department says they do, so they do. If you think “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” doesn’t apply to diplomats, who do you think it would apply to? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diplomats-child-is-not-a-citizen-of-their-country/957734/34 "2022-01-13T18:50:49Z")
Anecdote: My FIL was lifelong military and, for a while at the end of his career, worked in Korea for the State Department and held diplomatic status. He wasn’t the ambassador or anything, but he and his wife and their children held diplomatic passports and had diplomatic immunity. My (now-)wife used this once or twice to stop her bags from being searched at the airport in Seoul - she wasn’t carrying anything illegal or even remotely interesting as far as I know, but her status exempted her from such luggage searches. The flipside of this arrangement is that any bad actions by the family members of the person with diplomatic status are black marks against the diplomat him/herself, and if bad enough can be career-limiting and/or result in _persona non grata_ status. So while they can usually escape legal consequences in the country they’re residing in, there are still consequences of note. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diplomats-child-is-not-a-citizen-of-their-country/957734/35 "2022-01-13T18:53:35Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > Also, largely irrelevant. Since the _parents_ are not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, their child does not gain birthright citizenship. If the Russian ambassador is speeding or gets into a bar fight they are immune from local laws? Are their kids also immune from local law for doing the same? (really asking) ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diplomats-child-is-not-a-citizen-of-their-country/957734/36 "2022-01-13T19:00:15Z")
Yes, and yes. Also, yes, and yes, and yes, and yes. Here, an American diplomat’s wife killed a British teenager and couldn’t be prosecuted: > **[Anne Sacoolas, accused of killing British teen Harry Dunn, was working for...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/anne-sacoolas-intelligence-harry-dunn/2021/02/04/d2389f52-670e-11eb-bab8-707f8769d785_story.html)** > > The assertion reopens questions about whether she had diplomatic immunity when she fled the U.K. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diplomats-child-is-not-a-citizen-of-their-country/957734/37 "2022-01-13T19:00:26Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > If the Russian ambassador is speeding or gets into a bar fight they are immune from local laws? > > Are their kids also immune from local law for doing the same? (really asking) Yes to the first question. To the second, maybe; the usual test is whether the person is a family member in the diplomat’s household. That’s why the wife of a US diplomat could claim immunity when she ran over and killed a person in the UK. If the child was not a member of the household - e.g. an adult - that weakens the argument. I’m not sure what this has to do with whether the diplomat’s child is a CITIZEN. That is a totally different concept. This diplomatic immunity thing is not on topic. You seem to be confusing two completely different legal arguments. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diplomats-child-is-not-a-citizen-of-their-country/957734/38 "2022-01-13T19:00:46Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > If the Russian ambassador is speeding or gets into a bar fight they are immune from local laws? Yes. > [@](#): > > Are their kids also immune from local law for doing the same? (really asking) If they are under age 21 (or 23 if they are a full-time college student), yes. (Edit: and, as per @RickJay’s post, if they are still a member of their parent’s household.) ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diplomats-child-is-not-a-citizen-of-their-country/957734/39 "2022-01-13T19:02:06Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > If the Russian ambassador is speeding or gets into a bar fight they are immune from local laws? > > Are their kids also immune from local law for doing the same? (really asking) They’re not exactly immune, but under international law, as formalized under the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations and the U.S. law cited by **gnoitall** upthread, they’re largely shielded from legal action. The U.S. can declare them persona non grata, and expel them. The U.S. can also request their home government to revoke their credentials and diplomatic immunity and allow them to be tried, which has happened in some exceptional cases. And, of course, particularly for serious crimes, their home government might recall them and try them itself. But, yeah, google “UN New York parking tickets” some time for the decades long drama on the intersection of diplomatic immunity and local laws and ordinances. ETA: ninja’d by a whole squad with diplomatic immunity! ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diplomats-child-is-not-a-citizen-of-their-country/957734/40 "2022-01-13T19:09:57Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Why would the SC have to rule on whether or not Diplomat family members enjoy Diplomatic Immunity? The State Department says they do, so they do. In theory, the Supreme Court _could_ rule on such a law (or on the laws cited earlier, that children born in the U.S. to foreign nationals who are in the U.S. on diplomatic/official business, do not gain U.S. citizenship on birth). But, as I understand it, it would have to be a situation in which someone filed suit about one of those laws (such as a person who wanted to claim U.S. citizenship), and the case would have to make its way up the court system, to the point where the Supreme Court chose to examine the case and rule on the the constitutionality of the law in question. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diplomats-child-is-not-a-citizen-of-their-country/957734.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-diplomats-child-is-not-a-citizen-of-their-country/957734.md?page=3)