# A Drummers' Question
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-drummers-question/355190
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [May 3, 2006, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-drummers-question/355190 "2006-05-03T02:20:38Z")
**Posts on this page:** 14
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2006, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-drummers-question/355190/1 "2006-05-03T02:20:38Z")
After many years not playing, I have decided to form a band once again, and I have a question about “triggers”, specifically ones that mount on the snare.
Is this a device that will play the beat **for** you, allowing you to rest your hands?
As you might guess, it’s been a while, and I am mostly a “Charlie Watts/Ringo Starr” kind oif drummer, happy to play _time_ without any flashiness.
I guess what I am asking is, do I need a trigger, and what have been your experiences with them?
Thanks
Q
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### Author:  [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2006, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-drummers-question/355190/2 "2006-05-03T02:46:04Z")
Not a drummer, but as I understand it a trigger is a device that “triggers” a synthesizer each time you hit the drum. Basically, it lets you change the sound of your drum by mixing the natural drum sound with a synthesized effect.
They can also be used to trigger a sequencer, if you want to play with some sort of accompaniment. For example, Neil Peart has recently been incorporating a bit of jazz into his live drum solo - he plays along with a recorded big band that is accompanied by a video on the big screen. This has to be timed exactly right, so instead of depending on a human tech to press “play” at precisely the right moment, he has a trigger set up that starts the video and music the instant he hits a certain drum (at least I think that’s how he does it). His drum solo also includes some cymbal crashes that trigger a sampled horn section.
I was commenting to a drummer on how I was impressed that a certain heavy metal drummer can maintain a high-speed 16th-note pattern on his double kick drums all the way through a five-minute song. My drummer friend informed me that a lot of punk and metal drummers use triggers to simulate the 16th-notes. They’ll play quarter notes, and the trigger will turn each quarter-note kick into four 16th-notes. Like this:
```auto
Actual foot pattern: kick kick kick kick
Trigger converts to: budabudabudabudabudabudabuda
```
---
### Author:  [@some\_white\_dude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/some_white_dude)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2006, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-drummers-question/355190/3 "2006-05-03T08:03:27Z")
> [@Phase42](#):
>
> I was commenting to a drummer on how I was impressed that a certain heavy metal drummer can maintain a high-speed 16th-note pattern on his double kick drums all the way through a five-minute song. My drummer friend informed me that a lot of punk and metal drummers use triggers to simulate the 16th-notes. They’ll play quarter notes, and the trigger will turn each quarter-note kick into four 16th-notes.
That seems very cheap and wrong. Why not just go all the way and use completely synthetic beats?
---
### Author:  [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2006, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-drummers-question/355190/4 "2006-05-03T10:30:50Z")
> [@Phase42](#):
>
> Not a drummer, but as I understand it a trigger is a device that “triggers” a synthesizer each time you hit the drum. Basically, it lets you change the sound of your drum by mixing the natural drum sound with a synthesized effect.
>
> They can also be used to trigger a sequencer, if you want to play with some sort of accompaniment. For example, Neil Peart has recently been incorporating a bit of jazz into his live drum solo - he plays along with a recorded big band that is accompanied by a video on the big screen. This has to be timed exactly right, so instead of depending on a human tech to press “play” at precisely the right moment, he has a trigger set up that starts the video and music the instant he hits a certain drum (at least I think that’s how he does it). His drum solo also includes some cymbal crashes that trigger a sampled horn section.
>
> I was commenting to a drummer on how I was impressed that a certain heavy metal drummer can maintain a high-speed 16th-note pattern on his double kick drums all the way through a five-minute song. My drummer friend informed me that a lot of punk and metal drummers use triggers to simulate the 16th-notes. They’ll play quarter notes, and the trigger will turn each quarter-note kick into four 16th-notes. Like this:
>
> ```auto
>
> Actual foot pattern: kick kick kick kick
> Trigger converts to: budabudabudabudabudabudabuda
>
> ```
Most of what you said is correct. I’m a drummer, and have used triggers recently. I used them along with my drum module to get consistent kick sounds when playing very fast 16th notes. I have never seen or heard of anyone using their kick trigger in the manner that you mentioned. I suppose it might happen here and there, but any drummer resorting to this sort of cheating should be laughed off the stage.
Most of those metal drummer actually are playing that fast, just with a little assistance in the sound department. Kick triggers in a metal environment are used to make each note sound consistent. Playing that fast creates a few problems with getting consistent sounds. The drum head is constantly moving and the beater may not get a solid enough hit to make a note as loud as the previous note. Since the muscles used for that speed of playing are twitch muscles, some strikes won’t have as much power as others resulting in a fainter note.
Triggers are transducers. They convert a physical signal to an electronic one, which is then sent to a processer thatplays a designated sound through the PA.
A trigger could be used as mentioned in the OP, but there would have to be a delay or boomerang processer involved. That would be way too much of a hassle, unless every song were being started with a click.
In case the OP or anyone else is interested, I no longer need my drum module (an [Alesis DM5](http://www.alesis.com/products/dm5/) in great condition) and I’m planning to sell it for a very reasonable price.
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### Author:  [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2006, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-drummers-question/355190/5 "2006-05-03T15:25:49Z")
Thanks for the correction, **dnooman** 🙂
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### Author:  [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2006, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-drummers-question/355190/6 "2006-05-03T16:10:10Z")
> [@dnooman](#):
>
> Most of those metal drummer actually are playing that fast, just with a little assistance in the sound department. Kick triggers in a metal environment are used to make each note sound consistent. Playing that fast creates a few problems with getting consistent sounds. The drum head is constantly moving and the beater may not get a solid enough hit to make a note as loud as the previous note. Since the muscles used for that speed of playing are twitch muscles, some strikes won’t have as much power as others resulting in a fainter note.
Is this a pretty common occurance, or just some drummers? I know most metal drummers that do the blast/double bass thing have one of those pedals with the chain between them to let them use just one foot to hit both drums, at least the drummer in the last metal band I was in did.
---
### Author:  [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2006, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-drummers-question/355190/7 "2006-05-03T17:33:27Z")
> [@Cluricaun](#):
>
> Is this a pretty common occurance, or just some drummers? I know most metal drummers that do the blast/double bass thing have one of those pedals with the chain between them to let them use just one foot to hit both drums, at least the drummer in the last metal band I was in did.
You’re either thinking of a double bass pedal which is two pedals connected by a rod that both strike the same bass drum, or one of those gimmick pedals that let you do pseudo flams. Most likely the former.
[This](http://www.grandmas.com/ItemTamaHP900ptwPedal.html) is the double bass pedal that I use. Two pedals, one drum, very popular since one doesn’t need two bass drums.
[This](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0002HACDG/102-5933681-3820918?v=glance) is one of those gimmicky pedals that strikes on the upstroke and the downstroke. It takes a while to master I’ve heard. It is one of the lesser forms of cheating, but it is cheating none the less IMO. Besides, a good drummer should have each of their limbs equally dexterous. A good [drop clutch](http://cgi.ebay.com/Yamaha-DCR910-Hi-Hat-Stand-Cymbal-Drop-Clutch-Unused_W0QQitemZ7407665822QQcategoryZ41454QQcmdZViewItem) is all you need as far a the hi hat issue goes.
[This article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass_drum) covers most of what we’ve discussed here. Triggers, double pedals, etc.
As for trigger usage, the vast majority of trigger users are metal drummer because the speeds they play at are not very conducive to great sound consistency via miking. If one can’t get good sound quality through miking, triggers are about the only live option. As \*\*Phase42 mentioned, they can be used along with acoustic drum sounds, but almost never are. If you can’t get the drum itself to sound good enough, there’s no use in using a mic to amplify the crappy sound. Some drummers will even muffle the drum so that it basically becomes just a pad for the trigger.
---
### Author:  [@DfrntBreign](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DfrntBreign)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2006, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-drummers-question/355190/8 "2006-05-03T20:04:45Z")
Buddy Rich said, " You can do anything with one bass drum that can be done with two, if you’re a bitch. And I’m a bitch."
'Course he was **Buddy Rich!** I’m not gonna argue with him.
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### Author:  [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2006, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-drummers-question/355190/9 "2006-05-03T20:22:44Z")
Triggers can also trip strobe lights inside the drums. Years ago, during a Blue Oyster Cult show, all the lights were killed, and the drummer ran a few spare figures, building up to a steady barrage of flashes. During the pauses it was back to total darkness. It was very dramatic, and when the lights came back up, there was a huge inflated Godzilla. Too, too cool. I’m not that much of a BOC fan, but I’ll never forget that.
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### Author:  [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2006, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-drummers-question/355190/10 "2006-05-13T19:35:58Z")
**dnooman**
I went ahead and bought the drop clutch for the hi-hat, but had to settle for a Gilbraltar at 9.99. The other clutch was just nowhere to be found and the auction you linked to had already closed
I also bought a Paiste cymbal pack **PAISTE PST 5 ROCK SET 14/16/20**
and the Remo heads **REMO 5 PIECE ROCK PROPACK**.
The drums come with a drummer’s rug and now I guess all I need is the cowbell and some cases.
Unless y’all know of something else I need? 😃
Thanks for all the help!
Q
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### Author:  [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)
#### Post date: [May 14, 2006, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-drummers-question/355190/11 "2006-05-14T20:41:51Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#):
>
> **dnooman**
>
> I went ahead and bought the drop clutch for the hi-hat, but had to settle for a Gilbraltar at 9.99. The other clutch was just nowhere to be found and the auction you linked to had already closed
>
> I also bought a Paiste cymbal pack **PAISTE PST 5 ROCK SET 14/16/20**
>
> and the Remo heads **REMO 5 PIECE ROCK PROPACK**.
>
> The drums come with a drummer’s rug and now I guess all I need is the cowbell and some cases.
>
> Unless y’all know of something else I need? 😃
>
> Thanks for all the help!
>
> Q
That kit has a ton of potential! Once the heads are tuned up they’ll have to tear you away from your set.
I should have been a bit more specific about the drop clutch I linked to. The Yamaha pictured was purely a photographic example. I used that one and it worked great, but then wore out in a very annoying fashion. I don’t have any experience with using a Gibraltar, but they make some decent accessories. If it starts getting loose on you, try the Pearl. It has a fairly long striker bar and mine has yet to crap out on me. Also, very importantly, the threads on the cymbal clamp didn’t wear out. That’ll kill you if it happens live. I see now that yours has a key lock as a backup feature. Very nice.
Really good cases cost a fortune. If you can afford them, get some foam lined Humes and Berg cases. I would only get cases that expensive if a label were buying them. I’ve been thinking about getting [these](http://www.wwbw.com/Drums-In-The-Wind-Gold-Label-Bag-Set-In-Black-i81048.music) cases that should work great, and the price can’t be beat. That same site has tons and tons of cases and other equipment including the Humes and Berg cases. A friend bought the cases I linked to, and upon inspection they would be the ones that I would buy, especially for the price. Since they’re soft cases, they won’t mar your walls either. I’ve never bought anything from that site, but my friend seems pretty satisfied. I have a wish list there that makes me drool. 😃
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### Author:  [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2006, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-drummers-question/355190/12 "2006-05-18T07:32:26Z")
My set arrived yesterday (Wednesday) and I have been busy putting it together according Eric Singer’s instructions on the DVD, and it is **beautiful** , y’all!!!
One question: As y’all will have noted, I bought the Paiste cymbal set up, but are the Pearl cymbals which came with the Forums good for _anything_ , or should I just use them as dinner plates?
Many thanks to **Fenster**'s drummer **dnooman** for being my Guardian Angel in this whole project. His cd’s are available here:
[http://cdbaby.com/cd/fenster2](http://cdbaby.com/cd/fenster2)
Thanks and I’ll shoot a pic of my new babies as soon as I get them set up like I want them!
Quasi
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### Author:  [@RancidYakButterTeaParty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RancidYakButterTeaParty)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2006, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-drummers-question/355190/13 "2006-05-18T13:01:11Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#):
>
> My set arrived yesterday (Wednesday) and I have been busy putting it together according Eric Singer’s instructions on the DVD, and it is **beautiful** , y’all!!!
>
> One question: As y’all will have noted, I bought the Paiste cymbal set up, but are the Pearl cymbals which came with the Forums good for _anything_ , or should I just use them as dinner plates?
>
> Quasi
Quasi,
I still have my pearl cymbals. I actually prefer my pearl high hat to the others I have played, so it’s all personal preference. I don’t use any of the others on a regular basis.
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### Author:  [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2006, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-drummers-question/355190/14 "2006-05-19T21:04:44Z")
Guys,
I am having trouble figuring out how my Gibraltar drop clutch high hat assembly is supposed to be installed and they didn’t include any instructions. Can anyone linkj to me some which are similar?
Been away from the skins topo long, I guess! :rolleyes:
If y’all don’t mind, please send to my e-mail address as I can no longer access The Dope from work…
Thanks
Q