# A&E suspends Phil Robertson over anti-gay remarks **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 19, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747 "2013-12-19T18:37:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/401 "2013-12-23T18:12:28Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > [Here’s a video of what he said](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/19/phil-robertson-homophobic-2010-sermon_n_4475546.html?utm_hp_ref=gay-voices). > > It’s clear his religious beliefs follow a biblical assessment of morality. Sodom and Gomorrah, false gods… etc… It does not mean he hates gay people. It means he thinks his god thinks it’s a deal breaker for whatever reward system awaits. If he doesn’t love the sinner then he fails at his own game. So you’re saying that saying somebody is full of murder, envy, strife, and hatred, and saying they’re insolent, arrogant, heartless, faithless, senseless, and ruthless, and that they “invent ways of doing evil” ISN’T a sign of hatred? Just that his _god_ thinks it’s a deal breaker? Pull the other one, its got bells on it. You’ve already shown that your claims were totally contradictory and made up, why don’t you acknowledge that and apologize rather than backsliding into obvious BS? I’m curious, if I said that “Christians are full of murder and hatred, they are arrogant and ruthless, and their religion is just an invention to do evil”, would you accept that statement as totally non-hateful, and just factual according to my valid beliefs? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/402 "2013-12-23T18:12:54Z")
So, giving up on that dictionary thing? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/403 "2013-12-23T18:23:24Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > licking and sucking of sexual organs has always been considered a normal biological function of sexual acts. In the early 1990s, a dude in North Carolina, after being acquitted of rape charges for a possibly nonconsensual blowjob he received, was convicted of crimes against nature for receiving same blowjob. You’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/404 "2013-12-23T18:25:47Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > You think saying lesbians are, and I quote \*“They’re full of murder, envy, strife, hatred. They are insolent, arrogant, God-haters. They are heartless, they are faithless, they are senseless, they are ruthless. They invent ways of doing evil.” \* , isn’t homophobia, but is just “aversion to penis-in-anal sex” ? > > Really? > > You don’t see a problem there? > > Just a tiiiiny bit of a logical problem? That’s not what he said or at least that’s not what I think he said. He’s talking about mankind in general and not homosexuals. It wasn’t a well structured statement. And I wouldn’t use the word logic when discussing religion or morality. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/405 "2013-12-23T18:25:52Z")
Saying _“They’re full of murder, envy, strife, hatred. They are insolent, arrogant, God-haters. They are heartless, they are faithless, they are senseless, they are ruthless. They invent ways of doing evil.”_ is obviously a bigoted thing to say about any group – whether someone says this about blacks, Jews (and very similar things were said routinely about Jews throughout history in Europe), women, or homosexuals. And his implicit dismissal of the brutality of Jim Crow is similarly bigoted, if not quite as straight-forward. That being said, I’m sure A&E made their decision based on business considerations and not moral considerations. Time will tell whether it was the right business decision, but I don’t have any problem with it as a moral decision. ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/406 "2013-12-23T18:27:33Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > That’s not what he said or at least that’s not what I think he said. He’s talking about mankind in general and not homosexuals. It wasn’t a well structured statement. And I wouldn’t use the word logic when discussing religion or morality. Sorry, but that is what he said. “That’s not what he said” is the most ridiculous refutation I’ve ever seen. If you’re going to go with the “that’s not what he said” route, you’re just admitting that you have no possible defense and aren’t willing to be honest about it. He also said that applies to lesbians. Can you explain how the hell your fascination with anal sex applies to them? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/407 "2013-12-23T18:27:47Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > That’s not what he said or at least that’s not what I think he said. He’s talking about mankind in general and not homosexuals. It wasn’t a well structured statement. And I wouldn’t use the word logic when discussing religion or morality. It wasn’t a well structured statement, but in context, it’s pretty clear he was talking about “men with men” and “women with women” (which he refers to in the immediately preceding sentence). ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/408 "2013-12-23T18:29:10Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > In the early 1990s, a dude in North Carolina, after being acquitted of rape charges for a possibly nonconsensual blowjob he received, was convicted of crimes against nature for receiving same blowjob. You’re wrong. I wasn’t making a legal statement. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/409 "2013-12-23T18:29:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > In fairness, there were no black people and no gay people around. Except Willie’s black son, who is on the show regularly. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/410 "2013-12-23T18:30:04Z")
Fir enough. I’d forgotten about him. What sort of statement _were_ you making, **Magiver**? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/411 "2013-12-23T18:33:52Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Isn’t hostile to gays? > > From a speech “Phil” made in 2010: > > I don’t know how you defend “hate”, but the above might be a good place to start. > > [When You Defend Phil Robertson, Here's What You're Really Defending - Business Insider](http://www.businessinsider.com/when-you-defend-phil-robertson-heres-what-youre-really-defending-2013-12#ixzz2oJm4dcnr) I was only thinking of his one comment in GQ when I made that statement. I don’t think it’s wise to introduce other comments since we can’t even agree on the first one. But given how desperately people are rushing to take the first one out of context and make it much worse than it is, I’m not inclined to take this new one at face value until I know more. ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/412 "2013-12-23T18:35:21Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I was only thinking of his one comment in GQ when I made that statement. I don’t think it’s wise to introduce other comments since we can’t even agree on the first one. > . Can you imagine if “We shouldn’t introduce more evidence, because we can’t agree on something with less evidence already” applied to other debates? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/413 "2013-12-23T18:35:26Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It wasn’t a well structured statement, but in context, it’s pretty clear he was talking about “men with men” and “women with women” (which he refers to in the immediately preceding sentence). Yes, he clearly is saying gay acts are immoral based on his religious beliefs. Again, he’s obligated by the same belief system to love the sinner. By his own criteria he risks the wrath of his god. I don’t expect gay people to like this guy but that doesn’t mean he in turn hates them. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/414 "2013-12-23T18:35:57Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I was only thinking of his one comment in GQ when I made that statement. I don’t think it’s wise to introduce other comments since we can’t even agree on the first one. > > But given how desperately people are rushing to take the first one out of context and make it much worse than it is, I’m not inclined to take this new one at face value until I know more. [Here ya go then:](http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/12/23/3099641/duck-dynasty-double-sexual-immorality-number-list-sins/)Phil Robertson has spoken out publicly for the first time since GQ published comments he made condemning homosexuality as sinful and suggesting that African Americans were perfectly happy under Jim Crow laws. He did not address the racist remarks, but used a small group Bible study on Sunday to defend his rebukes of homosexuality, claiming he was merely quoting the Bible. [QUOTE=Phil Robertson] We murder each other and we steal from one another, sex and immorality goes ballistic. All the diseases that just so happen to follow sexual mischief… boy there are some microbes running around now. Sexual sins are numerous and many, I have a few myself. So what is your safest course of action? If you’re a man, find yourself a woman, marry them and keep your sex right there. You can have fun, but one thing is for sure, as long as you are both healthy in the first place, you are not going to catch some debilitating illness, there is safety there. Commonsense says we are not going to procreate the human race unless we have a man and a woman. From the beginning Jesus said, “It is a man and a woman.” Adam was made and Eve was made for this reason. They left their fathers and mothers and be united to become one flesh, that’s what marriage is all about. But we looked at it and said it was an outdated stereotype. When you look back at the human race, the sins have always been the same: We get high, we get drunk, we get laid, we steal and kill. Has this changed at all from the time God burnt up whole cities because their every thought was evil? The acts of the sinful nature are obvious. Sexual immorality, is number one on the list. How many ways can we sin sexually? My goodness. You open up that can of worms and people will be mad at you over it. I am just reading what was written over 2000 years ago. Those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom. All I did was quote from the scriptures, but they just didn’t know it. Whether I said it, or they read it, what’s the difference? The sins are the same, humans haven’t changed. […] But there’s a way out, do you want to hear the rest of the story or what? Jesus will take sins away, if you’re a homosexual he’ll take it away, if you’re an adulterer, if you’re a liar, what’s the difference? If you break one sin you may as well break them all. If we lose our morality, we will lose our country. It will happen. Wouldn’t it be nice if we could all walk around without stealing from each other and killing each other? [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/415 "2013-12-23T18:39:12Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I’m not religious, but I accept the fact that many people are. We live in a country where 45% of people think homosexuality is a sin. Are all these people homophobic? Are they all filled with hate? Yes, 45% of people in the US are homophobic. What does the percentage have to do with anything? You think something stops being bigotry if enough people agree with it? What percentage of people in the US in 1940 thought Jim Crow was a good idea? If it was 45% or more, does that make segregation not racist? Are they hate filled? No, probably not. But who said they were? You don’t have to be Fred Phelps level crazy to be a homophobe. You just have to think that it’s worse to be gay than it is to be straight. Everything else is just a matter of degree. > [@](#): > > This is a case of two groups talking past one another. Phil probably doesn’t get that his remark is offensive to gay people, some of whom have to live in fear of getting fired or beaten up simply for being who they are. But the liberal left doesn’t seem to get that Phil isn’t hostile to gays. He thinks it’s a sin the same way he thinks two kids having sex in the back of a car is a sin. He doesn’t hate the sinner, he is simply preaching what he thinks is right according to his beliefs. No, we over here on the “liberal left” understand his message perfectly. You’re the one who can’t hear the dog whistle, as the video **Magiver** just linked to so amply illustrates. “Hate the sin, love the sinner” is, with very few exceptions, a lie people tell themselves so they can treat gay people like shit without having to feel bad about themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/416 "2013-12-23T18:52:20Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > Phil Robertson has spoken out publicly for the first time since GQ published comments he made condemning homosexuality as sinful and suggesting that African Americans were perfectly happy under Jim Crow laws. Why do you have to go that extra step to make up falsehoods about him? You got the first half right. He thinks homosexuality is sinful. Good work. You didn’t accuse him of hating or anything above what he actually did.] But you go off the rails in the second half of the sentence. He never said “African Americans were perfectly happy under Jim Crow laws”. He was only speaking of his personal experience, first of all. He wasn’t talking about all blacks. Secondly, he wasn’t talking about Jim Crow laws. He was talking about the damage that welfare has done to blacks. I know you guys think you can just repeat this often enough and it will become true, but it wont. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/417 "2013-12-23T18:53:26Z")
What do you think he meant by “mistreated”, exactly? “Not getting welfare”? ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/418 "2013-12-23T18:56:24Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Why do you have to go that extra step to make up falsehoods about him? You got the first half right. He thinks homosexuality is sinful. Good work. You didn’t accuse him of hating or anything above what he actually did.] Why do you have to go that extra step to make up things that I didn’t say? I actually quoted the article VERBATIM. But hey, you got it all wrong. You should be proud or something since “good work” snark was taken by you. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/419 "2013-12-23T18:57:03Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > Sorry, but that is what he said. “That’s not what he said” is the most ridiculous refutation I’ve ever seen. If you’re going to go with the “that’s not what he said” route, you’re just admitting that you have no possible defense and aren’t willing to be honest about it. > > He also said that applies to lesbians. Can you explain how the hell your fascination with anal sex applies to them? I posted a video of what was said before and after what was quoted above. It appears to me he’s talking about morality in general. It doesn’t make sense that he attributes all the ills of the world to gay people but that he lumped what he believes is an immoral life style into the list. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/420 "2013-12-23T18:57:12Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > … From a speech “Phil” made in 2010: … The whole, rambling, craziness is (for now) available on [YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3MwBGsj7kw&list=PLs67oy0ddXEHCQzeZhlC6anI_JfTnKGPo). I’m starting to wonder if ol’ Phil thinks “They’re evil because they’re gay.” or “They’re gay because they’re evil.” (where “evil”, apparently, includes disagreeing with Phil’s understanding of both the Bible, the existence and nature of (G)god(s), and the Universe), I’m starting to lean towards the later :eek:. > [@](#): > > … The acts of the sinful nature are obvious. Sexual immorality, is number one on the list. …[RIGHT][CITE](http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/12/23/3099641/duck-dynasty-double-sexual-immorality-number-list-sins/)[/RIGHT] CMC [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747.md?page=22)