# A&E suspends Phil Robertson over anti-gay remarks **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 19, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747 "2013-12-19T18:37:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Dostoyevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Dostoyevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dostoyevsky)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/81 "2013-12-20T14:28:34Z")
> [@Mr.Natural](#): > > Well, I’m not reading all these comments, and I’ve never watched the goofy program and don’t intend to. What comments I have read, though, it seems that many want \*\*\*civil liberties \*\*\*for most, but this yahoo Robertson fellow, and his fans, shouldn’t be allowed their own. > > Seems hypocritical to me. (Emphasis mine.) What do civil liberties have to do with Robertson’s being fired? A&E’s decision to fire him is just a response to what the free market wants (or what A&E thinks the free market wants). ETA: are you referring to the part of the Civil Rights Bill that forced Woolworth’s to serve black people, or something similar? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/82 "2013-12-20T14:30:28Z")
> [@Mr.Natural](#): > > Well, I’m not reading all these comments, and I’ve never watched the goofy program and don’t intend to. What comments I have read, though, it seems that many want civil liberties for most, but this yahoo Robertson fellow, and his fans, shouldn’t be allowed their own. Which comment, specifically, do you see as calling for Robertson to be denied his civil rights? > [@](#): > > I haven’t called my gay niece or my gay nephew, to get their opinion about it, but knowing them as I do, they probably don’t much give a leap about it all. Some of your best…err…newphews are gay? ---
**Author:** ![Dostoyevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Dostoyevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dostoyevsky)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/83 "2013-12-20T14:32:05Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Some of your best…err…newphews are gay? I lol’d. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/84 "2013-12-20T14:33:14Z")
My biggest concern in all this is that I can’t now buy Under Armor clothes (which I generally like) since they have decided to continue sponsoring the show. And a good friend’s company was bought by UA and I wanted to support them. Oh well, plenty of other companies make good cold weather running gear. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Natural](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9adbd/32.png) [@Mr.Natural](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Natural)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/85 "2013-12-20T14:35:23Z")
> [@Dostoyevsky](#): > > (Emphasis mine.) What do civil liberties have to do with Robertson’s being fired? A&E’s decision to fire him is just a response to what the free market wants (or what A&E thinks the free market wants). > > ETA: are you referring to the part of the Civil Rights Bill that forced Woolworth’s to serve black people, or something similar? Dostoyevsky, indeed. har har har. If you have a problem with it, then take it up with Merriam Webster… civil liberty noun : the right of people to do or say things that are not illegal without being stopped or interrupted by the government [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/civil%20liberty](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/civil%20liberty) ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/86 "2013-12-20T14:36:54Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Well, when one’s reason for being offended is X (comparing homosexuality to bestiality) and then it is shown that that did not happen, yeah, it does mitigate the offense. _Of course_ it mitigates the offense. How do you feel about the racist and xenophobic comments? Were they ok in your mind? Were African Americans really better off before civil rights legislation? Is it true that Christians societies can do no wrong while other religions are evil? Do you think it’s OK to assault women and not apologize, because you’re a Christian, and thus don’t need to? > [@](#): > > If you have a problem with it, then take it up with Merriam Webster… I didn’t realize that A&E was the _government_ now. Geeze, they’ve really expanded… I thought the SciFi channel showing wrestling was bad! ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/87 "2013-12-20T14:37:59Z")
> [@Mr.Natural](#): > > the right of people to do or say things that are not illegal without being stopped or interrupted by the government > > [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/civil%20liberty](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/civil%20liberty) Unless I missed some rather major shift in US politics, the Arts and Entertainment Network is not “the government”. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Natural](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9adbd/32.png) [@Mr.Natural](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Natural)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/88 "2013-12-20T14:39:41Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > How do you feel about the racist and xenophobic comments? Were they ok in your mind? Were African Americans really better off before civil rights legislation? Is it true that Christians societies can do no wrong while other religions are evil? Do you think it’s OK to assault women and not apologize, because you’re a Christian, and thus don’t need to? what little I read, there was nothing about civil rights. Frankly, I’m not much interested in this whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Natural](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9adbd/32.png) [@Mr.Natural](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Natural)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/89 "2013-12-20T14:40:49Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Unless I missed some rather major shift in US politics, the Arts and Entertainment Network is not “the government”. as noted- take it up with Merriam-Webster, or did you miss this part… Freedom from arbitrary interference in one’s pursuits by individuals or by government. Nit pick or spin it how you want to. ---
**Author:** ![Dostoyevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Dostoyevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dostoyevsky)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/90 "2013-12-20T14:40:53Z")
> [@Mr.Natural](#): > > Dostoyevsky, indeed. har har har. > > If you have a problem with it, then take it up with Merriam Webster… I don’t have a problem. I just asked a question. **Simplico** seems to be wondering about the same. Perhaps you’ll respond to him in a nicer way. ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/91 "2013-12-20T14:41:16Z")
> [@Mr.Natural](#): > > what little I read, there was nothing about black civil rights. Frankly, I’m not much interested in this whole thing. [Linked in this very thread.](http://tv.yahoo.com/blogs/tv-news/-duck-dynasty--star-phil-robertson-digs-his-hole-a-little-deeper-by-also-stinging-african-americans-173821415.html) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/92 "2013-12-20T14:42:36Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > From [here:](http://dailycaller.com/2013/12/19/paglia-duck-dynasty-uproar-utterly-fascist-utterly-stalinist/) Short version: Opposing bigotry is bigoted against bigots. Yet again. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Natural](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9adbd/32.png) [@Mr.Natural](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Natural)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/93 "2013-12-20T14:45:25Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > [Linked in this very thread.](http://tv.yahoo.com/blogs/tv-news/-duck-dynasty--star-phil-robertson-digs-his-hole-a-little-deeper-by-also-stinging-african-americans-173821415.html) I never saw that article. Thanks for the link. ---
**Author:** ![Dostoyevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Dostoyevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dostoyevsky)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/94 "2013-12-20T14:47:02Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Short version: Opposing bigotry is bigoted against bigots. > > Yet again. The Devil’s Advocate’s position here can be strengthened by changing the above to, “Opposing bigotry at the national media level silences bigots, and it’s scary for what few media conglomerates that there are to have the power to silence anyone so thoroughly.” ETA: this line of reasoning might justify gay people’s siding with Robertson despite their profound disagreements, within the reasonable limit that his stated bigotry isn’t violent in nature. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/95 "2013-12-20T14:56:07Z")
Why the need to invent things to smear Phil with? Why can’t we focus on what he actually said without twisting his statements beyond recognition? > [@Karrius](#): > > Were African Americans really better off before civil rights legislation? Phil didn’t say this. He never mentioned civil rights legislation at all in the quote you are referring to. (Unless there’s another one that hasn’t been posted to the thread.) He was making the completely valid point that blacks were better off “pre-entitlement, and pre-welfare”. This is true. The welfare state resulted in the destruction of black families and they are certainly not better off for it. > [@](#): > > Is it true that Christians societies can do no wrong while other religions are evil? He never said Christian societies can do no wrong. You just made that up. I agree that he’s off base with his thoughts on lack of Jesus being the problem with the Nazis or the communists. But as an atheist I think it is a valid concern that atheist governments don’t have a great track record. > [@](#): > > Do you think it’s OK to assault women and not apologize, because you’re a Christian, and thus don’t need to? He paid them off with his life savings. They took the money. He turned his life around and improved as a person. What else would you have him do? Mis-representing this so badly is just silly. It smacks of desperation. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/96 "2013-12-20T14:58:28Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Yes. Yeah. So what if holding opinions like that potentially alienates _your own children_ from what is one of the last and most important support networks available. So what if it teaches them to hate, and teaches them that it’s not okay to be who you are. Who cares? They’re just fine otherwise. They have guns! > [@magellan01](#): > > From [here:](http://dailycaller.com/2013/12/19/paglia-duck-dynasty-uproar-utterly-fascist-utterly-stalinist/) “Camille Paglia nails it.” This woman compares a network suspending an actor for saying offensive, hateful crap to Stalinist censorship. Magellan, I thought you were a _little_ better than this. > [@](#): > > “In a democratic country, people have the right to be homophobic as well as they have the right to support homosexuality — as I one hundred percent do. If people are basing their views against gays on the Bible, again they have a right of religious freedom there,” she added. > > \ > > “To express yourself in a magazine in an interview — this is the level of punitive PC, utterly fascist, utterly Stalinist, OK, that my liberal colleagues in the Democratic Party and on college campuses have supported and promoted over the last several decades,” Paglia said. “This is the whole legacy of free speech 1960’s that have been lost by my own party.” > > \ > > “I think that this intolerance by gay activists toward the full spectrum of human beliefs is a sign of immaturity, juvenility,” Paglia said. “This is not the mark of a true intellectual life. This is why there is no cultural life now in the U.S. Why nothing is of interest coming from the major media in terms of cultural criticism. Why the graduates of the Ivy League with their A, A, A+ grades are complete cultural illiterates, etc. is because they are not being educated in any way to give respect to opposing view points.” Ugh. You know, even if she weren’t talking about homphobic bigotry, and rather was simply talking about something that is _just_ embarrassing for the network, she’d be the type of overreactionary harpy that screams “SOCIALISM” at the slightest whiff of any government program to help the average person. “Stalinist”? Really? A network suspended one of the people working for it because they said something many people (rightfully) found extremely offensive. That’s not dictatorial PC. That’s _not even censorship_. That’s a company either appealing to its own conscience or simply trying to make the right decision in the free market. You know, things that right-wingers are _usually_ willing to sacrifice all else for, unless it has to do with supporting social equality for LGBTQs. Although to be fair, at this point it seems like saying “fuck homosexuals” is a _good business decision_ in America. Fucking _abhorrent_. And you know what? Yeah, pro-gay-rights advocates aren’t particularly big on the whole “hearing the other side” thing. Why? Because the other side is _against providing homosexuals with the same tolerance and basic human rights that the rest of us get_. And there’s nothing wrong with that. You don’t need to put up with the KKK member who thinks blacks should have less rights because of _reasons_. There is no need to be tolerant of intolerance. Look, it just so happens that the full spectrum of human belief contains things which are _fucking horrifying_, and there’s nothing “juvenile” about being intolerant of the nastier parts. There is no room for dialog about whether or not gay people deserves to have the same rights as the rest of us. But the fact is simply that Roberton’s suspension has _nothing_ to do with free speech. Literally nothing, regardless of how retarded the Bobby Jindals and Camille Paglias of the world may be. To turn this into a discussion about freedom of speech and acceptance of ideas in the public view is dishonest and deplorable, and I can tell you right now exactly why they do it: because they don’t have the _balls_ to say openly what this is really about: “I agree with the statements Robertson made and do not believe that there should be repercussions for saying things like that”. Because this is _always_ about the gays. It’s _always_ about the things these people already believe in. And they don’t have the common decency to stand by their fucking _disgusting_ convictions. I believe that _you_ would fall for it, and genuinely believe this crap. But these people? Not a snowball’s chance in hell I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/97 "2013-12-20T14:59:12Z")
> [@Mr.Natural](#): > > as noted- take it up with Merriam-Webster, or did you miss this part… That isn’t the definition you quoted, so I’m not sure its an issue of my missing anything. But in anycase, a private network deciding they don’t want to air a show because one of the stars insulted a large demographic isn’t a violation of anyone’s civil liberties. There is no right to be free of the consequences of your speech. > [@Dostoyevsky](#): > > The Devil’s Advocate’s position here can be strengthened by changing the above to, “Opposing bigotry at the national media level silences bigots, and it’s scary for what few media conglomerates that there are to have the power to silence anyone so thoroughly.” I think its a stretch to say anyone has been “silenced thoroughly” here. I suspect a far larger number of people have heard Robertson’s quote then have ever watched his show, which is sort of the opposite of “silent”. And assuming A&E doesn’t take him back, he’ll probably end up as a frequent guest on Fox and other conservative media shows, so I doubt there’s been much damage to his future livelihood or ability to make himself heard either. I give you extra points for trying to come up with an original argument instead of the usual boring first amendment ones though. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/98 "2013-12-20T14:59:52Z")
> [@bmoak](#): > > I’m surprised his recollections of how blacks were much happier and never complained back in the good ol’ days of Jim Crow haven’t gotten more attention. > > “I never, with my eyes, saw the mistreatment of any black person. Not once. Where we lived was all farmers. The blacks worked for the farmers. I hoed cotton with them. I’m with the blacks, because we’re white trash. We’re going across the field…. They’re singing and happy. I never heard one of them, one black person, say, ‘I tell you what: These doggone white people’—not a word!… Pre-entitlement, pre-welfare, you say: Were they happy? They were godly; they were happy; no one was singing the blues.” OK – here goes my neck but ----------- I think I understand where he’s coming from on that one. He was white trash pretty much like some of us and from that standpoint we really \* didn’t\* see it. The separate bathrooms and counters were in the cities and towns which were like the moon to many of us; you saw it in the distance but you could only dream of what it was like there. For us, we all pissed behind the same trees and blistered the same way. Even once we came “to town” it was basically in the ghettos so the Jim Crow effects weren’t all that visible at first. It wasn’t until one of us made it to college that all of a sudden we found out what things really were like. That made a difference - major difference - to all of us. For all the money their company made, long before the show, I don’t know if Phil has yet to see “the moon”. See the US as it really was. Clearly he doesn’t see it as it is today. So that he still looks at all of us as having been “happy Godly field hands” together doesn’t shock me any. Sadden a little but no big surprise. This does make me curious about one thing though -------- take the folks from “Axemen” or “Deadliest Catch” or “Devils Ride” or any of the other so-called reality shows. Anyone want to bet there is at least one “Phil” in each cast? ---
**Author:** ![Dostoyevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Dostoyevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dostoyevsky)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/99 "2013-12-20T15:01:45Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > He was making the completely valid point that blacks were better off “pre-entitlement, and pre-welfare”. This is true. The welfare state resulted in the destruction of black families and they are certainly not better off for it. He also never said anything about “the destruction of black families,” but you seem to have inferred that that’s what he had in mind when he was complaining about entitlements. Seems only reasonable that others can also make their own inferences about what he had in mind. ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/100 "2013-12-20T15:02:10Z")
> [@Dostoyevsky](#): > > ETA: are you referring to the part of the Civil Rights Bill that forced Woolworth’s to serve black people, or something similar? I’ve seen several people (although no one serious) suggest that it’s a violation of Title VII. I _assume_ that reality show participants aren’t “employees,” but I guess I don’t know that for sure. (I would also expect there to be some sort of exception for performers – I mean, I can’t sue for not being cast as Othello on the basis of my race, can I? – but I have no idea). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747.md?page=6)