# A&E suspends Phil Robertson over anti-gay remarks **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 19, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747 "2013-12-19T18:37:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/121 "2013-12-20T15:27:42Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > So were you going to answer my question? I did. Your question was based on the faulty assumption that I think the Imperial Japanese, Nazis and Islamic Governments were atheist… I corrected that for you by agreeing with you that they are not. This makes your question moot. I’ll spell it out for you. I don’t think my point that Atheist leaning governments have bad track record is exactly what Phil was trying to say. It’s just something I felt like posting because his quote got me thinking. Happy now? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/122 "2013-12-20T15:30:51Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > He wishes to roll back the clock to the state of racial relations in the Jim Crow era, prior to the Civil Rights Act and the War on Poverty, and he thinks racial relations will benefit from this. I don’t know how his statement could be interpreted any other way. Does he also want to give Black people Polio? We didn’t have a Polio vaccine back then either. Does he want to take the internet away from Black people? It didn’t exist them either. Saying black people were better off before the welfare state and war on poverty doesn’t mean you should infer that every other unrelated development since then should also be lumped in with what he said. I am surprised this needs to be explained to people. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Natural](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9adbd/32.png) [@Mr.Natural](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Natural)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/123 "2013-12-20T15:32:20Z")
Wait a minute. So the tagline for this silly program is “Faith, Family, and Ducks”? Wouldn’t that give the average dork a clue about these people, their fans, and their opinions and attitudes? I guess it was ok with A&E to make millions of bucks off these ducks as long as nobody said too directly what they all thought anyway. gooney goo goo ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/124 "2013-12-20T15:35:25Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Eh, having grown up in Georgia it’s pretty clear to me what he’s referencing. I agree that it was unlikely he was thinking “Civil Rights Act of 1965” when he made those statements, but the references are quite clear: > > “_Pre_-entitlement” > > “_Pre_-welfare” > > He wishes to roll back the clock to the state of racial relations in the Jim Crow era. I don’t know how his statement could be interpreted any other way. It’d be nice to have some context for that statement. Unlike with the homosexuality remarks, the question asked isn’t included. The article just presents it in a sidebar block of text headed “Phil On Growing Up in Pre-Civil-Rights-Era Louisiana”. If the question was just “What was it like growing up in pre-Civil Rights Era Louisiana?”, and he replied with his honest recollections, I fail to see how that amounts to a wish to roll back the clock to Jim Crow, or racism. Evidently, his only interaction with black folks was walking to the fields with them, hoing cotton, and walking back. That he feels this is enough to decide that black folks in general were happy enough in that era is naive and foolish, but that’s all it is. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/125 "2013-12-20T15:37:16Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Yes, I’ve read the quote. Have you? > > He is clearly talking about entitlements and welfare, which many conservatives believe have done a lot more harm than good to poor people, especially blacks. > > Nowhere in that quote does he mention civil rights legislation. > > Read it. I don’t believe this. Part of the “welfare state” is social security. I think it’s quite fair to say that poverty rates among the elderly have gone down since the advent of Social Security. It’s also fair to say the the elderly are healthier than ever thanks to another “welfare state” notion, Medicare. I’d also say that having the safety net available has helped all ethnic groups. Saying that the safety net hurts blacks or that they need to be taught the value of work is both incorrect and condescending. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/126 "2013-12-20T15:37:50Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Does he also want to give Black people Polio? We didn’t have a Polio vaccine back then either. > > Does he want to take the internet away from Black people? It didn’t exist them either. > > Saying black people were better off before the welfare state and war on poverty doesn’t mean you should infer that every other unrelated development since then should also be lumped in with what he said. > > I am surprised this needs to be explained to people. I’m surprised that you don’t understand that the “welfare state” and “war on poverty” began with specific Federal legislation. I’m surprised that you could even find anything to defend about a statement that says that black people were better off in the 1950s than now. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/127 "2013-12-20T15:38:21Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > Why I brought up the Civil Rights stuff was he used the term _mistreatment_. That was his word, and “mistreatment”, to me, speaks to Civil Rights, in the same way that you’re focusing on “entitlement”. I find it kind of weird people (even those on my side) are focusing on the wrong words! See this quote: > > That to me is waaaaay more about “racism didn’t exist!” than the entitlement and welfare comment was, and is really, really awful. I actually agree with you on this aspect of what he posted. Re-reading that repeatedly I see how it could certainly be interpreted that way. But it’s not the way I first read it. Compare with this: “When I was in World War II, I never saw a shot fired. Not once. The soldiers in my unit and I, we all never fired our rifles.” You could read this that he means WWII vets are all overstating how difficult the fighting was. But a more charitable reading would simply be his amazement that he didn’t see something that was A.) Common for most and B.) Bad and something to be avoided. I read his post the same way. “I know Jim Crow was a bad time, but amazingly, I never saw anything bad first hand. I was fortunate.” It’s a charitable interpretation, I admit. But I’m inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt since I enjoy watching him on the show and like the guy. He’s got a black grandson, BTW that Willie adopted. But the civil rights act angle? That’s just completely random. I have no idea where people are getting that from. I guess some people don’t hear anything but dog whistles. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/128 "2013-12-20T15:39:09Z")
I don’t really give a shit about this story either way. My goat has been gotten by the response, and the cries of “free speech”! Look, lady, the First Amendment is a check on the government, not a cable network. > [@Debaser](#): > > A&E and Phil have been at odds for a while. Which seems like the likely explanation of their quick decision here. It’s rare for someone to be fired so quickly after making the comments. I did think the suspension seemed a bit sudden and even excessive, but the NAACP has also been complaining about the Jim Crow stuff. That, to me, is much worse than anything he said about gays. > [@bmoak](#): > > “I never, with my eyes, saw the mistreatment of any black person. Not once. Where we lived was all farmers. The blacks worked for the farmers. I hoed cotton with them. I’m with the blacks, because we’re white trash. We’re going across the field…. They’re singing and happy. I never heard one of them, one black person, say, ‘I tell you what: These doggone white people’—not a word!… Pre-entitlement, pre-welfare, you say: Were they happy? They were godly; they were happy; no one was singing the blues.” > [@Mr.Natural](#): > > Wait a minute. So the tagline for this silly program is “Faith, Family, and Ducks”? Wouldn’t that give the average dork a clue about these people, their fans, and their opinions and attitudes? Possibly. I don’t think anyone is particularly surprised that he believes this stuff. A lot of people are surprised that he was dumb enough to rant about it in a magazine with national circulation. And so what? Is surprise a predicate for offense? ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/129 "2013-12-20T15:41:04Z")
> [@Mr.Natural](#): > > Wait a minute. So the tagline for this silly program is “Faith, Family, and Ducks”? Wouldn’t that give the average dork a clue about these people, their fans, and their opinions and attitudes? > > I guess it was ok with A&E to make millions of bucks off these ducks as long as nobody said too directly what they all thought anyway. > > gooney goo goo Are you suggesting that I should assume anyone who claims to be Christian is a racist, xenophobic, homophobic jerk? Because if so I’m down for that. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/130 "2013-12-20T15:41:23Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I don’t believe this. Of course you don’t. Let’s save that debate for another thread, shall we? I can’t let this go, though: > [@](#): > > Saying that the safety net hurts blacks or that they need to be taught the value of work is both incorrect and condescending. I never said anything about “need to be taught the value of work” so please refrain from putting words in my mouth. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/131 "2013-12-20T15:42:02Z")
Eh, I’m out. I don’t watch the show and I wasted yesterday talking about this idiot. I don’t want to repeat the experience. Also, the “proof” I can offer in regards to the comment are not up to the standards of GD, but, though anecdotes != data, I can assure you that having been around people like this for much of my life, there’s little doubt in my mind what he was saying. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/132 "2013-12-20T15:42:07Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > … He wishes to roll back the clock to the state of racial relations in the Jim Crow era, prior to the Civil Rights Act and the War on Poverty, and he thinks racial relations will benefit from this. I don’t know how his statement could be interpreted any other way. Echos of “Our niggers were happy 'till them outside agitators showed up!”? CMC ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/133 "2013-12-20T15:42:32Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > That he feels this is enough to decide that black folks in general were happy enough in that era is naive and foolish, but that’s all it is. That’s the curious thing to me. He doesn’t even make any references to “black folks in general.” Every statement that he makes on the subject (that is reported, at least) claims to be a direct observation: "_I never, with my eyes, saw"_ and “\*I never heard \*”. It strikes me as unusually careful given his apparently rambling elsewhere in the interview. I suppose we can conclude that he’s implying that racism was not a hugely serious problem where he lived, but that’s speculative. (I find the notion that this is either racist or is advocating repealing the civil rights acts to be downright bizarre). ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Natural](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9adbd/32.png) [@Mr.Natural](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Natural)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/134 "2013-12-20T15:43:05Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I don’t really give a shit about this story either way. My goat has been gotten by the response, and the cries of “free speech”! Look, lady, the First Amendment is a check on the government, not a cable network. > > I did think the suspension seemed a bit sudden and even excessive, but the NAACP has also been complaining about the Jim Crow stuff. That, to me, is much worse than anything he said about gays. > > Possibly. I don’t think anyone is particularly surprised that he believes this stuff. A lot of people are surprised that he was dumb enough to rant about it in a magazine with national circulation. And so what? Is surprise a predicate for offense? > > Originally Posted by Mr. Natural View Post > Wait a minute. So the tagline for this silly program is “Faith, Family, and Ducks”? Wouldn’t that give the average dork a clue about these people, their fans, and their opinions and attitudes? > Possibly. I don’t think anyone is particularly surprised that he believes this stuff. A lot of people are surprised that he was dumb enough to rant about it in a magazine with national circulation. And so what? Is surprise a predicate for offense? The major point, of course, is that it’s just more hypocrisy for A&E to turn a blind eye to the “values” that the program offers, as long as they’re making good money on it. “I guess it was ok with A&E to make millions of bucks off these ducks as long as nobody said too directly what they all thought anyway.” ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/135 "2013-12-20T15:43:12Z")
Pretty much. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/136 "2013-12-20T15:43:57Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Of course you don’t. Let’s save that debate for another thread, shall we? > > I can’t let this go, though: > > I never said anything about “need to be taught the value of work” so please refrain from putting words in my mouth. I didn’t say that you did, but that is a very common conservative talking point. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/137 "2013-12-20T15:46:44Z")
> [@Mr.Natural](#): > > You’re obviously missing the major point, and that being that it’s just more hypocrisy for A&E to turn a blind eye to the “values” that the program offers, as long as they’re making good money on it. What “values”? There’s never been anything in the show about homosexuals or black people. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Natural](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9adbd/32.png) [@Mr.Natural](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Natural)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/138 "2013-12-20T15:49:52Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > What “values”? There’s never been anything in the show about homosexuals or black people. what values? duhhhh. Faith and family? If you see a tagline for a show about faith and family, what sort of “values” do you think they’re going to promote? edit: here’s a clue. It’s not going to be wild sex and drugs and rock and roll. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/139 "2013-12-20T15:55:43Z")
I don’t think it necessarily follows that it’s going to be “hating negroes and queers”. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Natural](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9adbd/32.png) [@Mr.Natural](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Natural)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747/140 "2013-12-20T15:59:10Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I don’t think it necessarily follows that it’s going to be “hating negroes and queers”. I’ve never seen the show, but I don’t necessarily think that, either, and didn’t say that. Go back and read my first post in this thread. My whole point is about the hypocrisy of it all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-e-suspends-phil-robertson-over-anti-gay-remarks/676747.md?page=8)