# A Euro 2004 thread - better late than never....(It's about soccerball) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 11, 2004, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-euro-2004-thread-better-late-than-never-its-about-soccerball/249832 "2004-06-11T16:17:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2004, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-euro-2004-thread-better-late-than-never-its-about-soccerball/249832/241 "2004-06-24T22:28:53Z")
Tomorrow I might just buy a football and punish it for a few hours. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2004, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-euro-2004-thread-better-late-than-never-its-about-soccerball/249832/242 "2004-06-24T22:44:08Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > David Beckham, however, should hide his head in shame. Sheesh. To get a penalty saved is one thing. To miss the goal entirely is inexcusable. He’s improving, though. That penalty was a good three feet closer than the one he took against Turkey. F\*\*\*\*\*\* England, though, they really reverted to type tonight. Supposedly top class international players, but they can’t string three passes together. How many times did Steven Gerrard give the ball away? He’s always looking for the 50-yard pass of the century, but sometimes you just need a simple short pass to somebody in a better position. He’s also worryingly fond of the risky back pass. So overrated that guy, he was utter shite tonight. Mind you, England never make it easy for the player with the ball to pass, which is why we can never retain possession. Other teams, the players nearby are constantly repositioning themselves to give the man on the ball options. England just stand there, expecting him to thread it through the eye of a needle, and as often as not the pass goes astray. And what’s with our throw-ins? Gary f\*\*\*\*\*\* Neville (who to be fair has played well in this tournament) spends five minutes dithering over who to throw to, and then selects the person with the _most_ opposition players around him? Preferably someone who’s also near the touchline and is running towards him at 20mph. Not a huge surprise when the throw-in goes wrong and we lose the ball. Again. :mad: Sorry, I could rant on about England’s failings for hours. I’ll shut up now. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2004, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-euro-2004-thread-better-late-than-never-its-about-soccerball/249832/243 "2004-06-24T23:45:28Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > Didn’t you see the state of the penalty spot? If beckham didn’t cause it then it is surely to blame for his shot. Every player after him had to re-flatten it. I don’t how this is an excuse, either way. Either he caused it, meaning he kicked turf. Or he didn’t cause it, meaning he had the same opportunity to flatten it that everyone else did. Oh, and it indeed did cost $20 to enter the pub. Had I known this in advance, I might not have gone. (That’s the only time I’ve ever had to pay to get into a sports bar… not that I frequent them frequently). ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-euro-2004-thread-better-late-than-never-its-about-soccerball/249832/244 "2004-06-25T04:35:54Z")
Having that goal disallowed then losing on PKs…a heartbreaking way to go out. But Portugal was much better, so I don’t feel too bad for England. ---
**Author:** ![Mycroft\_Holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a5b964/32.png) [@Mycroft\_Holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mycroft_Holmes)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-euro-2004-thread-better-late-than-never-its-about-soccerball/249832/245 "2004-06-25T07:23:25Z")
That was indeed a heartbraking way to lose, but I think the referee was correct in disallowing the goal. The Portuguese goalie was attacked in the area, and on the replay you can clearly see that the player that didn’t score (I think it was Gerrard, but I’m not sure) was holding on to the goalie’s arms. That was really an exciting game though. For eighty minutes it looked like England was going to go to the semifinals, then that goal by the Portuguese in the eighty-third minute. Where was the vaunted English defence at that point anyway? Then that incredible goal by Rui Costa in the second half of extra time. My thoughts at that point were: “Stick a fork in England and turn them over. They’re done!”. Five minutes later Lampard scores an incredible goal. The penalty spot was indeed in really bad shape, but I thought Eriksson had the team practice penalties. Not only Beckham’s penalty was badly missed. Except for Hargreaves, the other English penalties weren’t exactly things of beauty either. Also amazing was the little flip of the ball over the line by Postiga when he took his penalty. That took more than just guts, it was downright crazy! ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-euro-2004-thread-better-late-than-never-its-about-soccerball/249832/246 "2004-06-25T07:36:44Z")
What a match!! :eek: That was truly the most epic game of the tournament so far. My word, the excitement! Losing on penalties _sucks_. I know - Holland have done it many a time. We were kicked out of Euro 96 by the French on penalties, and we lost the semi-finals of the 1998 World Cup to Brasil that way. It sucks, sucks, sucks, and there’s always a lot of fingerpointing to the wrong people whenever it happens. F’rinstance, people are going to be blaming Beckham and Vassell now, both of whom played a good match last night. The bottom line, I guess, when it comes to penalties, is to accept that the game was too close to call, and that it’s now the flip of a coin. But MAN, is it rough. I feel for the English fans right now. It’s positively gutting. Having said that, I do feel that I need to comment on some of the statements here. Obviously, I watched the game as a relatively impartial observer, although I would have mildly favoured England as a potential semi-final opponent. The ref being charitable to the Portuguese rather than the English? I’m sorry, but I didn’t see it. I’m not going to suggest this was the best reffed match of the tournament, but it certainly wasn’t the worst, either (_cough_ Holland-Czech Republic _cough_). Partial? Not at all. The disallowed goal? Look - Terry had his arm all the way over Ricardo’s shoulder and he was leaning down as he jumped. That’ll get you a disallowed goal, from Cape Town to Stockholm, from amateurs to pros. I feel sorry for Campbell, because I think he would have headed it in even without Terry’s “help”, but disallowing it was the right thing to do. The penalty shoutout - what can I say. Ricardo came though and saved Portugal. He’s known as a penalty killer, and he again proved it by stopping Vassell’s predictable shot. And then claiming the subsequent penalty himself… yeah, a bit of bravado, a bit of showmanship. But DAMN, did it ever work. Great show. I’m sorry you English had to go out so dramatically, I really am. But on the whole, a draw was a justified score after 90 minutes, and then again after 120. Consequently, a penalty shoutout is another game altogether. Tough, England, but you went out with pride. Last question… the black arm bands. This wasn’t touched upon in the Dutch commentary, so I’ll ask it here. Who died? ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-euro-2004-thread-better-late-than-never-its-about-soccerball/249832/247 "2004-06-25T07:39:26Z")
One last thing. MVP: Ashley Cole, for playing the most rock solid match of any player in the entire tournament so far. Fantastic! Carvalho got the “official” man of the match title, but my award goes to Cole. ---
**Author:** ![Mycroft\_Holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a5b964/32.png) [@Mycroft\_Holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mycroft_Holmes)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-euro-2004-thread-better-late-than-never-its-about-soccerball/249832/248 "2004-06-25T07:46:21Z")
> [@Coldfire](#): > > The ref being charitable to the Portuguese rather than the English? I’m sorry, but I didn’t see it. I’m not going to suggest this was the best reffed match of the tournament, but it certainly wasn’t the worst, either (_cough_ Holland-Czech Republic _cough_). Partial? Not at all. > > The disallowed goal? Look - Terry had his arm all the way over Ricardo’s shoulder and he was leaning down as he jumped. That’ll get you a disallowed goal, from Cape Town to Stockholm, from amateurs to pros. I feel sorry for Campbell, because I think he would have headed it in even without Terry’s “help”, but disallowing it was the right thing to do. I have to agree with **Coldfire**. I also don’t think the referee was partial. I saw no obvious cards or penalties that he missed, or called when he shouldn’t have. I also saw the player draped over Ricardo when Campbell headed the ball in (I thought it was Gerrard in my post above, but I guess it was Terry). If Terry had just stayed away from the goalie, Campbell might well have scored anyway. On another tangent: Did eveyone see the look on Figo’s face when he was taken out of the game? Then he heads straight to the dressing room without even acknowledging his teammates and coach? Something tells me he was not a happy camper. How will this affect his standing within the team after they pulled out the win without him? If I was one of his teammates I would be pissed off at him! ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-euro-2004-thread-better-late-than-never-its-about-soccerball/249832/249 "2004-06-25T07:49:03Z")
What a nerve-wrecking game. It’s not good for the health, I tell ye. To me; There are no losers - or winners, of this game. Just a bunch of tired people. Man, imagine running at top speed all evening. England did great. Just had bad luck. It was fun to see that the prima-donnas of _both_ teams missed the penalty, though. I have a question too: What’s with the plasters [?] on the ears of some players? ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-euro-2004-thread-better-late-than-never-its-about-soccerball/249832/250 "2004-06-25T07:51:25Z")
[Oh, Goodmorning cloggies. Another brilliant sunny day, huh.] :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-euro-2004-thread-better-late-than-never-its-about-soccerball/249832/251 "2004-06-25T07:58:53Z")
Gummy, all dangerous jewelry such as bling-bling rings and earrings need to be taped off for safety reasons. I’d just take them out altogether (well I wouldn’t have them in the first place ;)), but I guess some players don’t mind taking a little duct tape to their ears. 🙂 Figo was not a happy camper indeed. Why he was so upset I don’t know, he was playing an attrociously bad match, and should have been thankful for being put out of his misery. I guess what we saw last night was Figo as he crossed the top, and began walking downhill, so to speak. As a mate of mine put it: Figo now has 108 caps. 107 for Portugal, and one for England. 😃 My word, what a lovely summer day it is indeed. 15 degrees Celcius, rain, and a wind that would qualify as “storm” in most normal countries. In 9 days, I’m flying to Phoenix. I’m in for quite a shock, methinks! ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-euro-2004-thread-better-late-than-never-its-about-soccerball/249832/252 "2004-06-25T08:01:59Z")
Damned cheese stealing time-out hamsters. Now I have to post again just so people see there’s a new addition to the thread! ---
**Author:** ![Mycroft\_Holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a5b964/32.png) [@Mycroft\_Holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mycroft_Holmes)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-euro-2004-thread-better-late-than-never-its-about-soccerball/249832/253 "2004-06-25T08:03:45Z")
Actually, the sun is shinig here in Rotterdam right now. The last two days have been typical Dutch summer days though (50mm of rain in 24 hours, gale force winds, hail, high temperatures of 15 degrees Celcius). ☹ It’s supposed to be nicer on the weekend though. The worst part is if the weather is nice all week while I’m stuck in the office, and then on Saturday and Sunday it rains all day. I have lost count of how many times this has happened. I think I’m ready to emigrate to Brazil now! ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-euro-2004-thread-better-late-than-never-its-about-soccerball/249832/254 "2004-06-25T08:09:42Z")
> [@Mycroft Holmes](#): > > I have to agree with **Coldfire**. I also don’t think the referee was partial. I saw no obvious cards or penalties that he missed, Oh, so you didn’t see him book Gerrard for mistiming an honest tackle, then completely ignore Jorge Andrade _literally_ shoving Vassell to the floor from behind to stop him intercepting a pass? > [@](#): > > I also saw the player draped over Ricardo when Campbell headed the ball in (I thought it was Gerrard in my post above, but I guess it was Terry). If Terry had just stayed away from the goalie, Campbell might well have scored anyway. Terry wasn’t attempting obstruction. He didn’t even know the damn keeper was _there_ - his attention was on the ball, and contrary to what Coldfire says he was _not_ leaning to block. Ricardo was beaten in the air by both men, plain and simple. More to the point, the linesman didn’t see anything wrong, but the referee apparently saw it all - straight through two men blocking his line of sight, and at a distance of 20 yards. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-euro-2004-thread-better-late-than-never-its-about-soccerball/249832/255 "2004-06-25T08:23:29Z")
hehehehe, at bling-bling rings. 🙂 Thanks, **Coldie**. Yes, it would make more sense to get the earring out. It looks like they’ve all been attacked by Sweeny Todd. Good luck on your flight to Phoenix. It’s 9 days, the weather _ought_ to get better by then. [what do you mean? The hamsters eat our _cheese_?? Good lord.] **Mycroft** The sun is shining in Rotterdam? **:oP~~~** 😉 And if you’re going to emigrate, Why not to Portugal? Nice and sunny up there and you can bring some cheese to the orange lions. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-euro-2004-thread-better-late-than-never-its-about-soccerball/249832/256 "2004-06-25T08:25:00Z")
And they speak some weird Brasilian dialect in Portugal, too! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mycroft\_Holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a5b964/32.png) [@Mycroft\_Holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mycroft_Holmes)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-euro-2004-thread-better-late-than-never-its-about-soccerball/249832/257 "2004-06-25T09:43:36Z")
> [@Evil Death](#): > > Ricardo was beaten in the air by both men, plain and simple. The reason Ricardo was beaten in the air by both was because Terry had his right arm draped across Ricardo’s shoulder. You can see it clearly in the third picture of this [article](http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004291561,00.html). Also, there might have been a few bad calls on **minor** infractions, but there were no denied penalties or players sent off undeservedly (_cough_ Dutch-Czech _cough_). I don’t think the referee can be blamed or England losing. For the real reason take a look at **Usram’s** post again. P.S.: No matter how bad the referee was in the game between the Netherlands and the Czech Republic, he was also not the reason Oranje lost. ---
**Author:** ![Mycroft\_Holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a5b964/32.png) [@Mycroft\_Holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mycroft_Holmes)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-euro-2004-thread-better-late-than-never-its-about-soccerball/249832/258 "2004-06-25T09:48:14Z")
> [@gum](#): > > And if you’re going to emigrate, Why not to Portugal? Nice and sunny up there and you can bring some cheese to the orange lions. You know, that’s not a bad idea at all. Taxes are low for ex-pats in Portugal, and they do indeed speak some weird dialect of Brazilian there, though most Portuguese sound like a Brazilian with a speech impediment. 😉 I’m not sure on which kind of cheese I should bring for the orange lions though. Jong, belegen, oud, geitenkaas, komijn, the choices are endless. ---
**Author:** ![joazito](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@joazito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joazito)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-euro-2004-thread-better-late-than-never-its-about-soccerball/249832/259 "2004-06-25T10:07:02Z")
I can’t believe you’re all blaming it on the ref. Biased as I may be, the TV replay clearly showed the england’s player with his arm over Ricardo’s shoulder forcing him down. Of course, it wasn’t Sol’s arm, but it was a foul nevertheless. It was as fair a match as any other and it could have gone either way. But this way tasted way better 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ponster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponster/32/17081_2.png) [@Ponster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponster)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-euro-2004-thread-better-late-than-never-its-about-soccerball/249832/260 "2004-06-25T10:18:48Z")
The players where wearing the black arm-bands in respect of Stephen Smith (28) who was stabbed and killed, allegedly by a Ukrainian pickpocket. I’m another one who had to pay to see the game (10? in most large sports bars in Paris) and another that thinks that the disallowed goal was called correctly. Cambell could easily have scored I believe if Terry hadn’t fouled the keeper even if he was in fact playing the ball. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-euro-2004-thread-better-late-than-never-its-about-soccerball/249832.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-euro-2004-thread-better-late-than-never-its-about-soccerball/249832.md?page=14)