# A Fair Film Fight & Hero Gets Ass Kicked **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 20, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fair-film-fight-hero-gets-ass-kicked/568344 "2011-01-20T16:57:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fair-film-fight-hero-gets-ass-kicked/568344/21 "2011-01-20T21:27:16Z")
If TV shows count, seems like Worf pretty much never wins a fight on ST:TNG. Even Guinan was a better shot (think I remember an episode where they are on a phaser range, and Guinan practices at a harder level than Worf does). ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fair-film-fight-hero-gets-ass-kicked/568344/22 "2011-01-20T21:29:14Z")
Bruce Willis gets punched and kicked silly at the end of **Die Hard 2**. Of course, Colonel Stewart appears to be something of a Tae Kwon Do expert, while John McClaine is just a bruiser, but he gets soundly trounced and knocked off the wing of the plane. Of course, by then he’d opened the fuel port, which allowed his bruised and bleeding self to blow the plane up in clear violation of the laws of physics, but he lost the fistfight quite badly. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fair-film-fight-hero-gets-ass-kicked/568344/23 "2011-01-20T21:30:49Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > If TV shows count, seems like Worf pretty much never wins a fight on ST:TNG. Even Guinan was a better shot (think I remember an episode where they are on a phaser range, and Guinan practices at a harder level than Worf does). Oh, yeah, jeez, Worf. Well, he did hold his own quite well in unarmed combat against a bunch of Jem’Hadar in that DS9 prison episode, but otherwise he’s pretty pathetic: [The Worf Effect - TV Tropes](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWorfEffect) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fair-film-fight-hero-gets-ass-kicked/568344/24 "2011-01-20T21:34:04Z")
Didn’t a depowered Superman get his ass kicked by a bully in a diner in Superman 2? ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fair-film-fight-hero-gets-ass-kicked/568344/25 "2011-01-20T21:46:08Z")
In _Barfly_, Henry Chinaski (Mickey Rourke) gets beaten in a fight by Eddie the bartender (Frank Stallone), and is left bloody, unconscious and face down in the alley. He later wins a rematch, though. Mike Newhouse (Adam Goldberg) gets the crap kicked out of him by Clint Bruno (Nicky Katt) in _Dazed and Confused_. ---
**Author:** ![Belrix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed655f/32.png) [@Belrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belrix)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fair-film-fight-hero-gets-ass-kicked/568344/26 "2011-01-20T21:53:41Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I guess it isn’t fair unless you believe Deckard was a replicant, but he gets his ass whipped by everybody who has a mind to in _Blade Runner_. I’m a believer that Deckard was a replicant (an opinion reinforced by the documentary on the newer released disks) but I figure he was like a Nexus-5 or something. Not quite as advanced. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fair-film-fight-hero-gets-ass-kicked/568344/27 "2011-01-20T22:41:27Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Didn’t a depowered Superman get his ass kicked by a bully in a diner in Superman 2? “Your seat’s in there, four eyes.” Not quite a fair fight, but there’s also Steve Buscemi in **Fargo** getting a beatdown from Sheb Proudfoot. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fair-film-fight-hero-gets-ass-kicked/568344/28 "2011-01-20T23:00:26Z")
Saving Private Ryan when the Nazi kills the Jew in the abandoned house. Man, that was _awful_! ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fair-film-fight-hero-gets-ass-kicked/568344/29 "2011-01-20T23:13:24Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > “Your seat’s in there, four eyes.” > > Not quite a fair fight, but there’s also Steve Buscemi in **Fargo** getting a beatdown from Sheb Proudfoot. A Fair Fight is ambiguous and that’s okay. It could be argued that Rocky vs Apollo Creed was not a fair fight because Sly was an extreme underdog. It was conducted by fair rules, but the participants weren’t equally matched. But _ **Morbo** _, what isn’t ambiguous is that Buscema was NOT the hero of Fargo. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fair-film-fight-hero-gets-ass-kicked/568344/30 "2011-01-20T23:40:29Z")
Tom Reagan, the character played by Gabriel Byrne in _Miller’s Crossing_, gets thumped nine ways from Sunday by nearly everyone else with a speaking part in the movie. Then there’s the titular character from _Kick-Ass_, who does pretty much anything but throughout most of the film. Though I guess getting a shiv stuck through him is not quite a fair fight. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fair-film-fight-hero-gets-ass-kicked/568344/31 "2011-01-20T23:58:20Z")
> [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > A Fair Fight is ambiguous and that’s okay. It could be argued that Rocky vs Apollo Creed was not a fair fight because Sly was an extreme underdog. It was conducted by fair rules, but the participants weren’t equally matched. Um…yeah they were. That’s pretty much the point of the movie…underdog goes the distance with the champ. Both guys took each other to the limit, and Creed won by split decision. If they weren’t evenly matched, somebody would have been knocked out. Perhaps it could be said that Creed was expecting a tomato can, and got caught by surprise, but that’s his fault for being over confident. ---
**Author:** ![stretch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@stretch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stretch)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fair-film-fight-hero-gets-ass-kicked/568344/32 "2011-01-21T00:09:15Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > People LIKE Fiona? You mean the terrorist? The one they had to have a whole episode about how she isn’t one of those BAD IRA terrorists, because even the writers realized it was kind of uncomfortable? The one who might be an interesting character if she actually ever _did_ or _said_ anything interesting, as opposed to the show telling us that she’s fascinating? (And pretending like she’s hot instead of out and out terrifying? I might like her a lot more if people reacted to her like they would in real life, which is more like “Kill it with fire!”) I hope in later seasons some actual conflict and character study comes out of her gun-running hobby or something, but I SERIOUSLY doubt that’s going to happen. > > ETA - in short, I don’t hate her JUST because her spine looks like a large alien parasitic worm. That’s just the cherry on top of the mummy’s curse. I see that you have strong feelings about this subject. 😉 I like the idea of Fiona. Can’t a girl move beyond her past of fire-bombings and such? Is there no room for redemption? Where else is gal going to get the kind of experience that character needs? I supposed she could have been Mossad, but then she would have to be a real bad girl not to be working for them still. Of course, when they have her be friends with active arms dealers and such, it _is_ harder to overlook her bad qualities. You are making me think to0 hard about this! ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fair-film-fight-hero-gets-ass-kicked/568344/33 "2011-01-21T00:21:46Z")
Teller in Penn and Teller Get Killed. There’s the great moment when Teller has been practicing ninja kata when Officer McNamara comes in and he ends up on the floor. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fair-film-fight-hero-gets-ass-kicked/568344/34 "2011-01-21T00:26:08Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Um…yeah they were. That’s pretty much the point of the movie…underdog goes the distance with the champ. Both guys took each other to the limit, and Creed won by split decision. If they weren’t evenly matched, somebody would have been knocked out. According to this [IMDB cite](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0479143/faq#.2.1.12), Rocky’s record before fighting Creed was 44-20. That would strong imply that Creed was a much, much better fighter but that the underdog almost had his day through better prep, lefty punching luck, and the demands of the story line. In the sequels, Rocky may have been elevated to the top level of heavyweights, but he wasn’t there in the first film. Any NFL team can beat any other NFL team on a given Sunday. That doesn’t mean the winner is the better team. It just means they won that day. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fair-film-fight-hero-gets-ass-kicked/568344/35 "2011-01-21T01:17:39Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Then there’s the titular character from _Kick-Ass_, who does pretty much anything but throughout most of the film. Though I guess getting a shiv stuck through him is not quite a fair fight. Fair enough. He went looking for a fight and could’ve been better prepared. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fair-film-fight-hero-gets-ass-kicked/568344/36 "2011-01-21T01:43:54Z")
> [@stretch](#): > > I see that you have strong feelings about this subject. 😉 > > I like the idea of Fiona. Can’t a girl move beyond her past of fire-bombings and such? Is there no room for redemption? Where else is gal going to get the kind of experience that character needs? I supposed she could have been Mossad, but then she would have to be a real bad girl not to be working for them still. Of course, when they have her be friends with active arms dealers and such, it _is_ harder to overlook her bad qualities. You are making me think to0 hard about this! Well, the worst part is that the acting and the writing doesn’t sell me for a minute on her being IRA or anything, for that matter, but an overly-Botoxed and dieted and sunned actress. I might actually be interested if she had real ambiguity and a character as opposed to fashion choices. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fair-film-fight-hero-gets-ass-kicked/568344/37 "2011-01-21T01:57:34Z")
Only somewhat related. There is a movie (perhaps the only one?) where the Duke, aka John Wayne, gets his ass whipped. Actually I think he is killed. Shot down by the bad guys like a dog IIRC. ISTR that he was escorting a bunch of young men from one place to another when the bad stuff went down. Not terribly related to the OP. But, then again, the times the Duke looses are pretty few… ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fair-film-fight-hero-gets-ass-kicked/568344/38 "2011-01-21T02:01:54Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > **Kiss Kiss Bang Bang**. “Walk away. Don’t think, just do it.” Although not related to the question of the o.p., I also love the scene where he decides to play Russian roulette with a henchman and proceeds to shoot him in the head. ‘Gay’ Perry: “You…put a live round in that gun?!?” Harry Lockhart: “Well, yeah, there was like an eight percent chance.” ‘Gay’ Perry: “Eight? Who taught you math?” My vote is for Brendon in _Brick_ (a neo-noir set in a high school environment), who proceeds to get his ass kicked over and over after picking fights with the local football jock, the enforcer for The Pin in the course of his investigation. The only fights he wins is against a strung out junkie and some random thug who he trips into a post. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fair-film-fight-hero-gets-ass-kicked/568344/39 "2011-01-21T02:08:20Z")
In _The Glass Key_, Alan Ladd can’t seem to catch a break any time he find himself in a room with William Bendix. Well, actually, it turns out he can (jaw, mandible, cheekbone, etc.), but I meant in the other sense. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fair-film-fight-hero-gets-ass-kicked/568344/40 "2011-01-21T03:15:35Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Only somewhat related. > > There is a movie (perhaps the only one?) where the Duke, aka John Wayne, gets his ass whipped. Actually I think he is killed. Shot down by the bad guys like a dog IIRC. ISTR that he was escorting a bunch of young men from one place to another when the bad stuff went down. > > Not terribly related to the OP. But, then again, the times the Duke looses are pretty few… [The Cowboys](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068421/plotsummary) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fair-film-fight-hero-gets-ass-kicked/568344.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fair-film-fight-hero-gets-ass-kicked/568344.md?page=3)