# A fear Panera is doomed **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 28, 2024, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fear-panera-is-doomed/1000880 "2024-04-28T20:40:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2024, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fear-panera-is-doomed/1000880/61 "2024-04-30T06:09:46Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Relevant is the fact that they apparently (in Ohio at least) have just overhauled their menu. Gone is the almond chicken salad, tho they still have the berry salad and have a new solid Med salad that I like. That’s an ongoing practice. They cycle items on and off their menu on a quarterly basis. They get to advertise that new items are available in order to attract customers to come in and try it out. And they can probably time the process to reflect rising and falling prices in the ingredients. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2024, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fear-panera-is-doomed/1000880/62 "2024-04-30T11:57:53Z")
I had heard some radio show or podcast a bit ago discussing the struggles specifically of mid price point restaurant chains. I think it was in reference to Applebees’ struggles but it was a generalized discussion that likely applies to Panera as well: The claim was that diners are either going to fast food for relative value or making eating out _an event_, an experience that they are willing to spend on. Applebees (and Panera) are in that sense neither fish nor fowl. They can’t move up into the experience class and they can’t compete with fast food on price. Labor is hard to find let alone retain. Debt is increasingly expensive to service. And many of theses companies took on some while debt was cheap. I think the entire segment of the industry is struggling. But yeah, stupid cutting costs that save little compared to the impact they have on the experience and/or productivity are a reasonable sign of a company in trouble. Or trying to get metrics in line to make a sale to the next venture investor. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2024, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fear-panera-is-doomed/1000880/63 "2024-04-30T12:06:58Z")
Even Olive Garden is apparently getting pressed. They are doing better than others specifically by not trying to compete with fast food places. But the most price sensitive groups are going there less. > **[Lower-income consumers pull back at Olive Garden](https://www.restaurantbusinessonline.com/financing/lower-income-consumers-pull-back-olive-garden)** > > Guests earning less than $75,000 are visiting the casual-dining chain much less than last year, parent Darden Restaurants said Thursday. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2024, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fear-panera-is-doomed/1000880/64 "2024-04-30T12:11:44Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > The claim was that diners are either going to fast food for relative value or making eating out _an event_, an experience that they are willing to spend on. That’s our point of view right there. We never choose “fast food” and lump Apleebee, Panera, Olive Garden, Chili’s, etc all in the fast food group. We eat dinner out ~3 nights a week. Cloth napkins and real cooking type places. Another dinner each week is from “high end” food trucks. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2024, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fear-panera-is-doomed/1000880/65 "2024-04-30T20:03:37Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Even Olive Garden is apparently getting pressed. They are doing better than others specifically by not trying to compete with fast food places. I’ve seen reports on Texas Roadhouse struggling too. Our local one is far from it; if you want to eat between 4:30 and 7 you’ll be waiting for a table, over an hour Fri thru Sun, but it may be the neighborhood demographics, lower middle-class. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2024, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fear-panera-is-doomed/1000880/66 "2024-04-30T20:34:12Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > I’ve seen reports on Texas Roadhouse struggling too. Now that’s interesting. I rarely eat at one because there are none that are anyway convenient to me, but I think Texas Roadhouse is fine for what it is (one of the better options of the various chain family steakhouses - way better than an Outback for example). And like you I’ve never seen one less than at least semi-packed. But maybe the break point between high labor costs, high meat prices and inability to raise meal prices high enough to compensate without losing customers is wearing them down despite volume. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2024, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fear-panera-is-doomed/1000880/67 "2024-04-30T20:46:41Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > They were sold (by the original founders, I think) to a German private company JAB in 2017. > > In 2023 the CEO from the original Panera was replaced by the CEO of Einstein’s Bagels (which had been acquired by the same parent) Oh, that’s too bad. I kinda liked them. But i guess they are doomed. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2024, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fear-panera-is-doomed/1000880/68 "2024-04-30T21:51:21Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > I’ve seen reports on Texas Roadhouse struggling too. They can go away for all I care. The rolls and honey cinnamon butter are terrible. Reminds me of the rolls served in a school cafeteria. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2024, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fear-panera-is-doomed/1000880/69 "2024-04-30T22:02:19Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yep. This is a death spiral. [![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B5-lDJWCUAAwfya.jpg) ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B5-lDJWCUAAwfya.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2024, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fear-panera-is-doomed/1000880/70 "2024-04-30T22:04:55Z")
> [@Dag\_Otto](#): > > They can go away for all I care. The rolls and honey cinnamon butter are terrible. Reminds me of the rolls served in a school cafeteria. Oh, man, we love the rolls and butter. We always ask for more. Can we have yours the next time you go? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2024, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fear-panera-is-doomed/1000880/71 "2024-04-30T22:13:07Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Even Olive Garden is apparently getting pressed. Respect. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2024, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fear-panera-is-doomed/1000880/72 "2024-04-30T22:14:52Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Can we have yours the next time you go? Absolutely! Though you might be waiting for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![ThisSpaceForRent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thisspaceforrent/32/345_2.png) [@ThisSpaceForRent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisSpaceForRent)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2024, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fear-panera-is-doomed/1000880/73 "2024-04-30T22:30:00Z")
Very close… but not quite there. St Louis Bread Company was founded in 1987 in Kirkwood MO, a St Louis suburb. Ken and Linda Rosenthal were the founders. SLBC was a Bakery Cafe. Ken studied in San Francisco to bring authentic sourdough bread to the St Louis area. Handmade pastries and baked goods were also available, FRESH daily. They grew locally to about 23 Bakery/Cafe’s and were bought by Ron Shaich’s Au Bon Pain group. Ron was/is a stellar businessman and grew SLBC/Panera to 2000+/- Bakery/Cafes. Ron was the majority stockholder and CEO. He did retire once (2011?) but returned quickly. Panera was sold to JAB in 2017… I have been a baker, a manager and a Joint Venture partner for Panera since 2004. I did leave for a few years but returned to be closer to my family, and my brothers fishing boat (LOL) I have Ideas about Panera’s future but will keep them to myself. I CAN assure you that the managers at my Bakery/Café are doing everything, allowed by corporate, to keep the product and service as good as possible. I can tell you we are no longer 1/4 of the Bakery we used to be… the focus is on the Cafe. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2024, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fear-panera-is-doomed/1000880/74 "2024-05-01T00:36:18Z")
These stories are reminding me of a hamburger/sandwich place that opened just a block from where I live decades ago. The owners were women who had done catering for movie sets, but wanted to settle in a permanent location as they got older. Their burgers were awesome! Quality meat, quality everything. Then, they retired, and the new owner gradually began lowering the quality, and I stopped going. So sad. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2024, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fear-panera-is-doomed/1000880/75 "2024-05-01T00:41:33Z")
I’ll be sad if Panera goes away, if only because it’s the only place I know of where I can get a bowl of French onion soup without having to go to a steakhouse. Those breakfast souffles and cinnamon crunch bagels are good too. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2024, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fear-panera-is-doomed/1000880/76 "2024-05-01T00:41:57Z")
I get a lot of supplier lunches when onsite. I die a little bit every time one of them has Panera. I don’t vocally complain, because, well, it’s nice that the supplier has lunch for us. But there are a million better, tastier choices than Panera. And that’s a quality/taste choice, as obviously the free-to-me price doesn’t influence things. It’s just downright not good. So, I’ll be happy if it leaves the lunch rotation. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2024, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fear-panera-is-doomed/1000880/77 "2024-05-01T01:16:17Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > Then, they retired, and the new owner gradually began lowering the quality, and I stopped going. So sad. This is the story of every Chinese place within 40 miles of here. We _used to have_ some **amazing** restaurants/buffets. But once they are successful, the owners, out of misplaced (IMO) loyalty to Family, sell the place to cousins or the like, who proceed to run it into the ground at a high rate of speed. Sadly, we are currently in the “This place is crap!” phase of the cycle. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2024, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fear-panera-is-doomed/1000880/78 "2024-05-01T01:18:52Z")
> [@Dag\_Otto](#): > > > [@DesertDog](#): > > > > I’ve seen reports on Texas Roadhouse struggling too. > > They can go away for all I care. Booo! Booooo!!! ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2024, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fear-panera-is-doomed/1000880/79 "2024-05-01T01:53:04Z")
> [@Dag\_Otto](#): > > The rolls and honey cinnamon butter are terrible. When the server reaches for the basket we just ask them to leave the cinnamon butter behind and bring plain butter along with the beverages. I agree with you: Sweet bread with sweet butter is just too much, but the solution is simple. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2024, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fear-panera-is-doomed/1000880/80 "2024-05-01T01:55:22Z")
I made a decision to cut my saturated fat intake quite drastically last summer, but I still get a steak (carry out) from Texas Roadhouse every Sunday. So it’s no butter for me. I just sprinkle some salt on my plate and press the bread into it. A fine crust of salt on bread beats butter any day! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fear-panera-is-doomed/1000880.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-fear-panera-is-doomed/1000880.md?page=5)