# "A female's intelligence etc. is irrelevant to me..." **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 13, 2012, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556 "2012-09-13T00:18:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/61 "2012-09-13T17:23:13Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I thought that the 50s and 60s were OVER. That’s basically the same message that I got when I was a girl, growing up. “Smile at the boys, never let them see you frown”, “be pleasant to the boys”, “always let the boys win”, “never show that you’re smarter than a boy”, and “you can’t act like a boy if you want boys to like you”. In other words, men (and boys) get to look out for themselves in relationships, and expect to be first. But a woman or girl has to put the man first, and herself second. If she wants something, it’s secondary to what he wants. Well, how about this advice to boys: “Smile at the girls, never let them see you frown” “be pleasant to the girls” “always let the girls win” “never show that you’re smarter than a girl” “you can’t act like a girl if you want girls to like you” “A man should put the woman first, and himself second” In other words, acting like you think you’re smarter and better than your romantic partner isn’t exactly a winning move. Men might show off for women, but it’s a mistake to show off by trying to compete against her, you’re not going to win that game. And I’ve never met a woman who wanted to hear a man complain or talk about how his feelings were hurt. So there’s a sexist tinge to the 50s style advice, but there’s also a lot of stuff that is just common sense for anyone looking for a romantic partner of either gender. Don’t be a complainer. Don’t be a sourpuss. Be pleasant to be around. Don’t try to build yourself up at the expense of your partner. You’re not going to get very far if you put yourself first and your partner second. Realize that what they want from you might not be the same thing that you want from them. Realize that what they want from you might be the same thing you want from them. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/62 "2012-09-13T17:35:21Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > The ability to sneeze without emitting a Hiroshima-like explosion is also underrated. Word. Political and religious differences are as nothing in comparison to sneeze compatibility. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/63 "2012-09-13T17:40:09Z")
I’m more attracted to smart women. Looks fade, but if you have to stay with someone for a long time, you have to be able to talk about stuff ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/64 "2012-09-13T17:40:21Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I think there are some people who just can’t imagine having their primary emotional relationship be with a member of the opposite sex. Marriage/long term relationships are about sex, forming an economic unit, co-parenting. Women are as prone to this as men: I know plenty of women who melt at a compliment from a man, who love to flirt and date and be chased, who eventually marry and have children with someone, but who never seem to quite take a man seriously: they’d never talk to a man about anything important. That’s what moms and sisters and girlfriends are for. Men can be the same way. Pretty much this. The guy in the OP sounds like his life is where he wants it, and he doesn’t want a woman around to fill in any spots, just to fill up that ONE slot where he needs…whatever he needs. I suspect a LOT OF PEOPLE get into relationships thinking it’s going to fill the one gap and not intrude into the rest of their lives. Until it does. And THAT’S the point where people either open up or get out. The beginning isn’t so unusual, especially for folks who have never been in a serious relationship. Also, many women do have men-specific roles they want filled, but have no desire or need to be real partners with their SOs except when conventionally ordained. Also…just off the cuff…the original guy sounds like he’s having a sub-monologue going on. “Hi, I think I want a companion, but I don’t really think I’m worthy of one, so I’m going to be kind of a jerk and limit it to what I want and that’s it. And if someone puts up with that, then I know they are worthy of my disdain and later when I am feeling guilty/pressurred I can dump them knowing I’m not losing anything.” Off the cuff, as I said. Regardless, he wants a puzzle-piece relationship and he’s putting it out there. ---
**Author:** ![Imago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/85e7bf/32.png) [@Imago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imago)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/65 "2012-09-13T17:48:00Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Bahhh… > > There IS a difference between wanting someone that doesn’t bitch at me constantly and wanting someone who doesn’t bitch at me constantly AND I can be an ass to and get away with it. Granted. Still, wanting someone who never, ever “bitches” at you is also different from wanting someone who doesn’t do it constantly. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/66 "2012-09-13T17:53:57Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Is having a fat wallet and being nice a perfectly good set too? Just wondering. I keep hoping so! 🙂 The guy seems like a jerk - unless he was phrasing things poorly. You were there, I’m trusting he was probably a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/67 "2012-09-13T17:56:48Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I’m more attracted to smart women. Looks fade, but if you have to stay with someone for a long time, you have to be able to talk about stuff From what I understood, the OP’s ex was perfectly content to talk _at_ a woman endlessly - she doesn’t need to say much. ---
**Author:** ![Jaledin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jaledin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaledin)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/68 "2012-09-13T18:27:16Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I actually think there are a surprising number of people (men and women) who don’t value nice, either. Absolutely. My most successful relationships have been with women who have very cruel senses of humor. Of course they were nice to me, but had no problems calling me a dumbass when I misquoted something about one of the things they happened to know a lot about. And to the question for men: no, I don’t really understand this attitude. I won’t pretend I’m better and more enlightened – I’m a real bastard sometimes when in a little spat with a woman, probably verging on verbal abuse (which comes from both sides) – but this guy sounds like a loser. ---
**Author:** ![Jaledin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jaledin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaledin)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/69 "2012-09-13T18:33:35Z")
Oh, and I did break it off with a nice woman I was shacked up with for about a year. She was too sweet, too nice. She was unreasonably impressed by the books I was reading. Couldn’t handle it anymore. She was not particularly docile, either – very much her own woman – but just really sweet and nice. Made me a little sick. Then again, she did bring me a Lyndon LaRouche paperback because she thought since I was into Leibniz at the time I’d like it. Maybe not so much a big hit in the brainpan, come to think of it, but that’s OK so long as she wasn’t so damned sweet and romantic and shit. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/70 "2012-09-13T18:46:47Z")
I also think it’s a good thing he was so up front about his philosophy. Good for him. I wouldn’t date him, but he’s at least self aware enough to own his crap. Maybe he’ll end up with some mousey, timid girl, who needs a ‘strong’ male figure? Y’know, to spell out, ‘how it’s going to be’. She’ll like that part, makes it easy for her to know what’s expected of her! And they’ll deserve each other! Good on you for fleeing, I’d have done the same! ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/71 "2012-09-13T18:48:11Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > From what I understood, the OP’s ex was perfectly content to talk _at_ a woman endlessly - she doesn’t need to say much. I know some of yall won’t believe this, but he actually did say he prefers a woman whom he can talk _at_. She will sit there and listen to him talk about football, zombies, or whatever, but have zero expectation of any reciprocity. Because apparently that would be too much to ask of him. The fact that my eyes didn’t bulge out of my head at that point tells me that I’m losing my spunk. The game is wearing me out. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/72 "2012-09-13T18:59:32Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I know some of yall won’t believe this, but he actually did say he prefers a woman whom he can talk _at_. She will sit there and listen to him talk about football, zombies, or whatever, but have zero expectation of any reciprocity. Because apparently that would be too much to ask of him. > > The fact that my eyes didn’t bulge out of my head at that point tells me that I’m losing my spunk. The game is wearing me out. My dog does that. She listens well, but she doesn’t say much. Sometimes she’ll wag her tail when I talk. Sometimes she’ll jump up and lick my face when I talk, but she doesn’t say much. He needs a dog. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/73 "2012-09-13T19:16:20Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > The ability to sneeze without emitting a Hiroshima-like explosion is also underrated. For me, the ability to put up with such sneezing is a necassary feature that I value in my wife. To each his own. Pretty Nice Puts up with Hiroshima-like sneezes. My marital checklist is complete. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/74 "2012-09-13T19:28:50Z")
> [@Khadaji](#): > > My dog does that. She listens well, but she doesn’t say much. Sometimes she’ll wag her tail when I talk. Sometimes she’ll jump up and lick my face when I talk, but she doesn’t say much. He needs a dog. So you’re rich and have a sweet dog? How \*you \*doin’? ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/75 "2012-09-13T19:40:06Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > So you’re rich and have a sweet dog? How \*you \*doin’? 🙂 Rich? Well, no, I’m not a 1%er. But I do make good money. And my dog is indeed a sweetheart. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/76 "2012-09-13T21:17:09Z")
> [@](#): > > Men of the Dope, any there any among you who either share this sentiment or see nothing bothersome with it to the extent that you can’t grok why a woman would be turned off by it? I don’t think this way at all. In fact, if I can’t have a decent conversation with a woman, no matter how hot she may be, I’m not interested. I don’t expect that she can carry a super intellectual conversation with me, but she has to be able to offer me some kind of intellectual challenge. So intelligence is a big deal. Frankly, when I have met other guys who aren’t interested in that, generally they’re also the types that can’t really hold a decent intellectual conversation either ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/77 "2012-09-13T21:41:32Z")
Dopers are a self selected group, and I’d warrant very few men that are active dopers would be interested in a woman who was not reasonably bright. But that’s not the world, there are lots of men, even successful ones, for whom being real smart comes in distant second to being nice in terms of what they would value in potential female SOs. If you can get both, fantastic, but if it’s an either/or nice will usually win. This is the flip side of why women are often attracted to aggressive, decisive men even if they are rude of obnoxious in some areas. High female intelligence is a wonderful thing in and of itself, but it’s not perceived as a particularly valuable genetic trait in terms of the genetic fitness calculus of what attracts men to men to women. Getting upset or aggravated about this is pointless. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/78 "2012-09-13T22:41:54Z")
> [@Khadaji](#): > > 🙂 > Rich? Well, no, I’m not a 1%er. But I do make good money. > > And my dog is indeed a sweetheart. Cool, you can come to Chicago whenever you want. > [@astro](#): > > Dopers are a self selected group, and I’d warrant very few men that are active dopers would be interested in a woman who was not reasonably bright. But that’s not the world, there are lots of men, even successful ones, for whom being real smart comes in distant second to being nice in terms of what they would value in potential female SOs. If you can get both, fantastic, but if it’s an either/or nice will usually win. > > This is the flip side of why women are often attracted to aggressive, decisive men even if they are rude of obnoxious in some areas. High female intelligence is a wonderful thing in and of itself, but it’s not perceived as a particularly valuable genetic trait in terms of the genetic fitness calculus of what attracts men to men to women. Getting upset or aggravated about this is pointless. We get it. It’s not a shocker that a lot of men (and women, for that matter) say good looks and niceness are all they need in a partner. But for people who value intelligence in others, such a mindset is frustrating, particularly if it’s wrapped in a shitload of misogyny. In the happy world, all bright women would settle down (if they choose!) with a man who values smarts as much as he does niceness. And if we’re in the either/or scenario in which most would go with nice over smart, then a lot of us will shrug and go, “Oh well. No date for me then.” But this is just life in general, isn’t it? We know what everyone else wants – big tits and nachos – but among those for whom this is not enough, sometimes seeking friends or partners feels like a giant eye roll. It’s cool, though, because it may be harder for some, but we find our folks, then it’s all good. And it kicks so much more ass than ending up with some jackass who we snagged by pretending to be “nice” so he’ll like us. We find folks who like us for us, and truly excellent shit ensues. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/79 "2012-09-13T23:01:58Z")
I probably fall somewhere between that and the typical western romanticized ‘you are my everything’ standard people tend to push for. I have found friendships far more drama free and nurturing than relationships based on sexual attraction. I once read (no idea if it is true) that japanese do not have the same attitudes about intimacy, they seek intimacy from friendship more than dating partners, which is something I support. So in a way I can see his point. There is too much emotional baggage that goes into dating for it to provide deep emotional support, at least for me. Deep emotional support comes more from friends and support groups. But my history is pretty bad at relationships and dating, so what do I know. But being ok with a woman who is dumb and has no opinions or conversation skills, just so long as she is pretty? That is going a bit further than I would. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/80 "2012-09-13T23:06:34Z")
> [@Imago](#): > > So **astro** , let me get this straight. Every woman who wants her LTM male partner to value more than solely her looks is just angry at the world? > > Men like the one in the OP don’t want nice, they want docile. They don’t want someone who will be kind to them, the want someone they don’t have to be kind to. In a long-term relationship, there’s nothing healthy about that. that was what I got from it too. The way the OP describes him as saying he wants the woman to sit quietly in his company and listen to him talk, that sounds pretty one sided. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556.md?page=5)