# "A female's intelligence etc. is irrelevant to me..." **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 13, 2012, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556 "2012-09-13T00:18:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/121 "2012-09-17T14:59:03Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Intelligence is generally overrated as a personal traits. Anything above retard level is fine with me as long as she is kind and has a nice personality and a good pair of tits. You’re joking, but I can relate. Some of the most kind, giving, golden rule living folks I know happen to be a bit dingy. (My mom is a great example). She was also quite beautiful to look at. My dad, being a very intelligent man was completely in love with her. I’m sure there were smarter women out there for him, but he chose her. But I get YWTF’s point. One shouldn’t have to choose between nice and smart. Many have both qualities if one really wants them. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/122 "2012-09-17T15:48:42Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > That is the point of the thread, but you are the one who decided to claim that being smart is a bad thing. What in the world? Where did I claim such a thing? ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/123 "2012-09-17T17:23:38Z")
After reading through this I have never been more happy to be average. A) It isn’t difficult to find an intelligent woman. B) I can safely ignore the percentage that tell me how intelligent they are without seriously limiting my dating pool. I wouldn’t say that intelligence doesn’t matter, but it certainly isn’t more important than the whole of the rest. Of course there is a threshold, people run the gamut from imbecile to genius and all points in between. I like to focus on the women in about the 1/4 of the bell curve from the peak on. Not too dumb, not too pretentious. However, it all goes out the window if she has a PHD\*. 😃 Gotta think of myself and the kids well being. \*Poppa Has Dough 😉 ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/124 "2012-09-18T05:00:12Z")
Youwiththeface (nice OP/topic combo, btw :D), was he a little drunk when he said this? > [@treis](#): > > It was a rhetorical question. I understand the benefits of being with a smart person, but ultimately they are insignificant. Do you really expect me to say: “Gee, Sally was fun, attractive, and always did the sweetest things for me. But she wasn’t very bright and I was worried about her genetic suitability for mating, if she could handle our personal finances, or talk intelligently about politics, so I broke up with her.” Of course not. Perhaps you’re like the guys MandaJo mentioned before - they need women to be their companions, co-parents, etc, but not the buds they talk to about everything outside the home. They’re the kind of male/female relationships you see as add-ons in those bromance movies. IRL I only know a few people like this, and some are happy, but actually they seem more likely to have problems when kids come along and the couple are forced to spend more time - shock! horror! - with just each other than with their friends. However, I suspect that even the women who are happy in those relationships would resent being told they’re there just for a pretty face that would stay shut while their partner nattered on. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/125 "2012-09-18T06:50:06Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Youwiththeface (nice OP/topic combo, btw :D), was he a little drunk when he said this? > > Perhaps you’re like the guys MandaJo mentioned before - they need women to be their companions, co-parents, etc, but not the buds they talk to about everything outside the home. > > They’re the kind of male/female relationships you see as add-ons in those bromance movies. IRL I only know a few people like this, and some are happy, but actually they seem more likely to have problems when kids come along and the couple are forced to spend more time - shock! horror! - with just each other than with their friends. > > However, I suspect that even the women who are happy in those relationships would resent being told they’re there just for a pretty face that would stay shut while their partner nattered on. With all due respect there seems to be this idealized notion that a normal, well adjusted man will inherently _want_ to discuss all this “outside the home” stuff with his wife or SO. There are reasons for compartmentalizing some of the stuff in your life. Not every angsty personal issue needs to be shared and debated to death with your wife. Sometimes it’s better to talk to your buds, cowboy up and deal. Discussing everything as a couple may sound good in theory, but there’s a point where your SO will want you to STFU, and be an adult. Plus, and this\* is\* a Mars -Venus thing. Many (not all) women across the entirety of the intellectual spectrum love to discuss things to pieces with no real action plan or concrete solution in the offing. This drives many men batshit. There are reasons we choose certain groups to discuss things with that have relatively little to do with intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/126 "2012-09-18T13:47:01Z")
> [@astro](#): > > With all due respect there seems to be this idealized notion that a normal, well adjusted man will inherently _want_ to discuss all this “outside the home” stuff with his wife or SO. There are reasons for compartmentalizing some of the stuff in your life. Not every angsty personal issue needs to be shared and debated to death with your wife. Sometimes it’s better to talk to your buds, cowboy up and deal. This is true. A spouse has a different perspective and investment in a situation than friends. Some kinds of discussions are better with friends, because friends aren’t going to have the “how is this affecting me directly?” point of view. They can be more arms-length about a situation. In other words, discussing something with a spouse might mostly just stress her out and make her mad at you; whereas, that might not be true of a friend. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/127 "2012-09-18T13:57:32Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Youwiththeface (nice OP/topic combo, btw :D), was he a little drunk when he said this? No, he was perfectly sober. > [@astro](#): > > Discussing everything as a couple may sound good in theory, but there’s a point where your SO will want you to STFU, and be an adult. Why would you characterize the desire for peer-to-peer conversation, on a wide range of subjects, _with your spouse_, as not being “adult”? If people select mates on superficial characteristics like looks and niceness, I don’t see how they have any room to complain when their relationships fail to hold up over time. I have a feeling that if I went around talking about how my only criteria in men were that they were nice and made lots of money, no one would sympathize with me if I later found myself unhappily married to someone who bored me to death, frustrated me in bed, had habits and addictions that drove me crazy, or turned out to be a weak parent or a control freak. These are the kind of results one would expect to get if they have shallow standards. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/128 "2012-09-18T15:06:40Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > No, he was perfectly sober. > > Why would you characterize the desire for peer-to-peer conversation, on a wide range of subjects, _with your spouse_, as not being “adult”? > > If people select mates on superficial characteristics like looks and niceness, I don’t see how they have any room to complain when their relationships fail to hold up over time. I have a feeling that if I went around talking about how my only criteria in men were that they were nice and made lots of money, no one would sympathize with me if I later found myself unhappily married to someone who bored me to death, frustrated me in bed, had habits and addictions that drove me crazy, or turned out to be a weak parent or a control freak. These are the kind of results one would expect to get if they have shallow standards. There are a number of subjects for which women in general, and wives specifically, are not the ideal conversational partners. In addition men and women often have different conversational styles and conversational goals. In casual interpersonal conversations women will often talk just to talk and while men can, and will, engage this conversational style for a while (especially at the beginning of a relationship) there is point at which it gets to be (for men) mentally exhausting and they will simply zone out. This is not to say women’s conversational style is less worthy or interesting than men’s, it’s just different. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/129 "2012-09-18T15:36:42Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > No, he was perfectly sober. > > Why would you characterize the desire for peer-to-peer conversation, on a wide range of subjects, _with your spouse_, as not being “adult”? > > If people select mates on superficial characteristics like looks and niceness, . Niceness is “superficial”? WTF? ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/130 "2012-09-18T15:48:57Z")
Depends on how you’re defining “niceness.” I suppose many use being “nice” and “good” interchangeably, but I tend to think of them as being different things. I’ve been kind of using the word “nice” more sloppily than I usually do in this thread, mainly to remain consistent with how everyone else seems to be using it, but I think of “niceness” as bothering with superficial pleasantries, such as smiling and being agreeable. Usually good people \*are \*nice, or at least I’ve found this to be the case, but since we’re throwing false dichotomies all over the place here, I’d rather deal with a superficially unpleasant person who is good, than a bad person who smiles and is polite. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/131 "2012-09-18T15:54:49Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Niceness is “superficial”? WTF? In the sense that the guy in the OP was using, yes it’s superficial. How nice can someone really be if you neither expect nor want them to talk to you? Nice in that sense just means docile. It doesn’t mean they are compassionate, generous, patient, or even sweet. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/132 "2012-09-18T15:56:45Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Depends on how you’re defining “niceness.” I suppose many use being “nice” and “good” interchangeably, but I tend to think of them as being different things. I’ve been kind of using the word “nice” more sloppily than I usually do in this thread, mainly to remain consistent with how everyone else seems to be using it, but I think of “niceness” as bothering with superficial pleasantries, such as smiling and being agreeable. Usually good people \*are \*nice, or at least I’ve found this to be the case, but since we’re throwing false dichotomies all over the place here, I’d rather deal with a superficially unpleasant person who is good, than a bad person who smiles and is polite. Yeah. I’ve been lazy too. I think ‘good’ would be better to make my points. Nice has baggage. As I often tell a friend of mine, he’s a good man, but not a nice guy. He’s awesome. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/133 "2012-09-18T15:57:13Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Depends on how you’re defining “niceness.” . No doubt. but is anybody here seriously using the superficial version? Or in other words, my wife is a back stabbing cold calculating bitch who I wouldn’t trust for anything…but hey, I like her because she says please, thank you, and smiles? ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/134 "2012-09-18T16:02:28Z")
Ha ha. Well I sincerely hope people won’t go as far as accepting a back-stabbing psycho just because she smiles a lot, but I’d reckon even the OP’s date has basic human decency thresholds, which if she meets as nearly everyone does, would be fine so long as she smiled and were pleasant. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/135 "2012-09-18T16:21:38Z")
> [@astro](#): > > There are a number of subjects for which women in general, and wives specifically, are not the ideal conversational partners. In addition men and women often have different conversational styles and conversational goals. > > In casual interpersonal conversations women will often talk just to talk and while men can, and will, engage this conversational style for a while (especially at the beginning of a relationship) there is point at which it gets to be (for men) mentally exhausting and they will simply zone out. This is not to say women’s conversational style is less worthy or interesting than men’s, it’s just different. I certainly wouldn’t expect my partner to talk to me about everything - she doesn’t know much about science fiction, for example, and we don’t talk much about politics (mainly because we agree on most things poltical, so it’d be a very short and dull discussion). I have other people for those. But we can still chat for hours without running out of things to talk about, and I could never be with anyone who wasn’t capable of that with me. If a guy wants to talk, say, football with his buds and doesn’t care if his wife can’t talk about it, that’s normal. What’s a little odd is not needing her to talk to him at _all_. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/136 "2012-09-18T16:27:20Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > … a bad person who smiles and is polite. Ain’t a nice person by any stretch of the definition. A good person that is aloof or socially awkward isn’t a nice person either. From my reading of the thread it seems nice is being equated to friendliness by those who don’t see it as being an important trait, and it is being equated to the sum of geniality, circumspection and moral goodness by those that do. I think that might account for much of the disconnection here. Intelligence is all good and fine, but I’d rather have an average intelligence nice girl that swim in a lot of different social circles than an intelligent pedant that is a fish out of water except when around other grad school attendees. I don’t think either trait trumps the other except at the ends of the spectrum. So all things being equal I’d rather trade a little bit of intelligence for a little more “niceness”. ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_G7subs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85e7bf/32.png) [@Rich\_G7subs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_G7subs)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/137 "2012-09-18T16:45:16Z")
My .02$ Are you planning on developing a master race of genetically perfect people or are you looking for someone to spend your life with? All things aside, I’m an average looking guy of slightly above average intelligence and my wife is average intelligence but above average looking. I have to say when I met her, the right girl, I just knew. I didn’t put a whole lot of thought into it… we just clicked. I don’t ever remember not dating a girl because she was not intelligent, or pretty. It just had to feel right. Of course there has to be chemistry, I’m just saying some things can be “overlooked” and average out. So your girl ain’t a rocket scientist, but she is warm, funny and fun to be with. It’s the whole package that counts. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/138 "2012-09-18T16:56:35Z")
> [@astro](#): > > In casual interpersonal conversations women will often talk just to talk and while men can, and will, engage this conversational style for a while (especially at the beginning of a relationship) there is point at which it gets to be (for men) mentally exhausting and they will simply zone out. This is not to say women’s conversational style is less worthy or interesting than men’s, it’s just different. Not all women talk just to talk, and plenty of men indulge in their fair share of seemingly pointless pontification. Case in point, the guy in the OP. There’s only so much talk about zombies one can handle before one’s eyes start to gloss over, but you know what? I don’t attribute this habit of his to men as a whole. I simply look for men who can talk about stuff that interests me (i.e., are good conversationalists) and I screen out those who bore me to tears. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/139 "2012-09-18T17:30:27Z")
> [@Rich\_G7subs](#): > > My .02$ > > Are you planning on developing a master race of genetically perfect people or are you looking for someone to spend your life with? > > All things aside, I’m an average looking guy of slightly above average intelligence and my wife is average intelligence but above average looking. I have to say when I met her, the right girl, I just knew. I didn’t put a whole lot of thought into it… we just clicked. I don’t ever remember not dating a girl because she was not intelligent, or pretty. It just had to feel right. Of course there has to be chemistry, I’m just saying some things can be “overlooked” and average out. So your girl ain’t a rocket scientist, but she is warm, funny and fun to be with. It’s the whole package that counts. I don’t hand out guys an IQ test. Like you, either we click or we don’t. But I’ve found that I tend to click more with people who share my sense of humor, see the world the way I do in more ways than not, and enjoy having conversations about the same things I do. I’ve found these people always are at or around the same level of intelligence as I am. Even if you’re warm and nice, I’m just not going to feel it unless you get me and get it. I guess that’s where we differ, and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to feel that way. I’m not peering over my monocle at anyone or anything, because lord knows I’m no rocket genius, but I just can’t feel the chemistry unless our brains are on the same wavelength. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556/140 "2012-09-18T17:36:16Z")
Having many family, friends, co-workers etc that are female I have been exposed to much female griping in my life 🙂 Intelligent women seem to have problems understanding that their intelligence and/or ambition/high level career positions have little effect on attracting guys. What the OP says is true for many guys. Many guys want a kind woman that they are attracted to and like. This is not a horrible thing and doesn’t make them bad people. However, you get intelligent and/or ambitious-in-career women who seem to think that this should translate into a higher ‘market value’ on the dating scene and are frustrated when it does not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-females-intelligence-etc-is-irrelevant-to-me/634556.md?page=8)