# A few good man questions
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-man-questions/674881
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [November 27, 2013, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-man-questions/674881 "2013-11-27T02:43:39Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@pezzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pezzy)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2013, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-man-questions/674881/1 "2013-11-27T02:43:39Z")
In the movie " A few good men". do you think that the two Marines accused of Murder were found not guilty. and what kind of defense did their lawyers use for them.
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### Author:  [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2013, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-man-questions/674881/2 "2013-11-27T03:00:22Z")
That’s pretty much the whole plot of the movie right there; have you not seen it and you want us to lay it out for you?
Not that there’s anything especially wrong with that, but you could probably get a quicker answer on the Wikipedia plot summary for the movie. Movie discussions here are usually about the subtleties, or things that aren’t explicitly covered.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2013, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-man-questions/674881/3 "2013-11-27T03:01:44Z")
Whatever you find out, I hope you can handle it.
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2013, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-man-questions/674881/4 "2013-11-27T03:06:43Z")
Did you watch the movie? They were found not guilty of murder, but found guilty of conduct unbecoming and dishonorably discharged. The defense argument was that, when the two marines gave Santiago the Code Red that killed him, they were doing so with the knowledge of and under the orders of the base’s senior officers (played by Jack Nicholson and J.T. Walsh), and they didn’t feel that they could refuse those orders, in spite of their illegality. The whole speech where Jack Nicholson admits to ordering the Code Red and trying to justify it is probably the most famous scene in the movie. It’s probably the only scene that most people remember. Here it is:
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/5j2F4VcBmeo/hqdefault.jpg "A Few Good Man "You Can't Handle the Truth"") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j2F4VcBmeo)
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### Author:  [@turtlescanfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/turtlescanfly)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2013, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-man-questions/674881/5 "2013-11-27T03:16:32Z")
> [@pezzy](#):
>
> do you think that the two Marines accused of Murder were found not guilty.
Umm…yes, but not just because I think so… it’s explicitly stated that they are found not guilty of murder in the final scene. There wasn’t really any ambiguity to it at all. (they are however found guilty of conduct unbecoming and dishonorably discharged).
As far as to their defense, they successfully argued that the Marines were acting under explicit orders from their Commanding Officer (Tom Cruise’s lawyer brilliantly gets him to admit this on the stand after repeated denials… right after the famous “You can’t handle the truth!”)
ETA: ninja’d by **Captain Amazing**. Also I heartily endorse **Robot Arm** ’s suggestion of Wikipedia for a plot summary… I frequently refer to it after watching a movie if I had any questions about the plot. Sometime you just miss stuff and it leaves you confused.
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### Author:  [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2013, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-man-questions/674881/6 "2013-11-27T03:23:28Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#):
>
> Did you watch the movie? They were found not guilty of murder, but found guilty of conduct unbecoming and dishonorably discharged. The defense argument was that, when the two marines gave Santiago the Code Red that killed him, they were doing so with the knowledge of and under the orders of the base’s senior officers (played by Jack Nicholson and J.T. Walsh), and they didn’t feel that they could refuse those orders, in spite of their illegality. The whole speech where Jack Nicholson admits to ordering the Code Red and trying to justify it is probably the most famous scene in the movie. It’s probably the only scene that most people remember. Here it is:
>
> [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j2F4VcBmeo](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j2F4VcBmeo)
Yes, but viewers of the movie have the advantage of knowing from the beginning about Jessup ordering the Code Red. The most interesting part of Caffey’s defense is how he gets Jessup to admit it; trapping him in a contradiction of the lies he was telling to cover it up. Caffey’s questioning is very well done. He starts with basic questions that lead to stronger conclusions, there’s even a bit of a stall in the middle when Jessup gets up to leave, and then he springs the trap at the end. It’s fun to watch a second time when you know what he’s planning. It’s even foreshadowed when Caffey says that he going to lead Jessup right where he’s dying to go. The writing is excellent.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2013, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-man-questions/674881/7 "2013-11-27T03:42:35Z")
I never really understood the big trap. Jessup volunteers on the stand that Marines never disobey orders or people die. Well, isn’t the prosecution’s theory that these marines disobeyed orders and a man died?
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### Author:  [@turtlescanfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/turtlescanfly)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2013, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-man-questions/674881/8 "2013-11-27T04:00:28Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#):
>
> I never really understood the big trap. Jessup volunteers on the stand that Marines never disobey orders or people die. Well, isn’t the prosecution’s theory that these marines disobeyed orders and a man died?
I got the sense that the prosecution did not know that Jessup ordered the Code Red (that is, they believed the lies they were told). They knew that Kendrick (Kiefer Sutherland’s character) had convened a meeting where he explicitly told everyone not to retaliate against Santiago, but Dawson was the only witness (and recipient) of the second order given (in his barracks room) to give the Code Red. In fact, the only reason the other Marine was involved was because Dawson recruited him to help, he never heard the order directly.
So from the (under-informed) prosecutor’s viewpoint, the Marines were ordered not to retaliate but did so anyway. Caffey showed that was not the case. A valid question about this movies that is open to speculation is whether or not the prosecution knew the truth or not. Whether or not the Marines were found not guilty is not up for debate.
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### Author:  [@turtlescanfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/turtlescanfly)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2013, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-man-questions/674881/9 "2013-11-27T04:08:43Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#):
>
> I never really understood the big trap. Jessup volunteers on the stand that Marines never disobey orders or people die. Well, isn’t the prosecution’s theory that these marines disobeyed orders and a man died?
The trap was that Jessup supposedly believed that his Marines would not disobey orders, but was claiming to have planned to transfer Santiago for his own safety, in case the men took matters into their own hands (this was the lie, he had explicitly denied the transfer, fabricating it after the fact as part of the cover up). Caffey pointed out this incongruity (as well as others… my favorite was the fact that none of Santiago’s clothes were packed).
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### Author:  [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2013, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-man-questions/674881/10 "2013-11-27T04:09:22Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#):
>
> I never really understood the big trap. Jessup volunteers on the stand that Marines never disobey orders or people die. Well, isn’t the prosecution’s theory that these marines disobeyed orders and a man died?
That’s why Kaffee (I misspelled it before) doesn’t start with that question. He asks Jessup if Lt. Kendrick might have misunderstood his order, or if he might have disregarded it as unimportant. That’s what I meant before about leading him right where he wants to go. It’s Jessup’s ego and the whole code-of-honor thing that makes him inflate it to the “we follow orders or people die” thing. And the trap doesn’t fall apart on the basis of the prosecution’s theory that the defendants did disobey orders. The contradiction is in the events that Jessup claimed happened before Santiago was killed; it’s his belief that his orders will be carried out that leads to the contradiction, and what actually happened doesn’t erase that.
The Marine Corps Code thing bothers me a little in the movie, in how the two defendants stick to it even after watching their commanding officers come to their court martial and lie to cover their own asses.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2013, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-man-questions/674881/11 "2013-11-27T04:14:16Z")
Well, the prosecution must’ve known _something_ was wrong, when the pressure came to assign the case to Caffey (who had a reputation for plea bargaining) and offer a remarkably generous six-month sentence for his clients. It only goes awry when Dawson refuses to play along.
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### Author:  [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2013, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-man-questions/674881/12 "2013-11-27T04:39:16Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#):
>
> I never really understood the big trap. Jessup volunteers on the stand that Marines never disobey orders or people die. Well, isn’t the prosecution’s theory that these marines disobeyed orders and a man died?
Yes, and that’s why they are no longer fit to be marines and are being court martialled. 😉
When Jessup says that marines never disobey orders, its bravado, of course. Everyone knows that there have been cases throughout history of marines disobeying orders. Colonels like to talk big - who would have guessed 😉
But this specific big talk doesn’t mesh with the logic of his other responses ((a) Santiago was being transferred because he was in danger even though (b) The Colonel had ordered that no one touch Santiago). When the defence points out this inconsistancy in the logic, and goads the Colonel with it, the Colonel loses it and spills the beans.
That was the trap - pushing the senior officers buttons.
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### Author:  [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2013, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-man-questions/674881/13 "2013-11-27T04:41:53Z")
It’s also worth pointing out that this movie is the essential link to _The Princess Bride_ when playing Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon.
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### Author:  [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2013, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-man-questions/674881/14 "2013-11-27T04:50:28Z")
Phooey, I put my man pants on so’s I could answer some good man questions. But there ain’t even \*one \*good man question in here.
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### Author:  [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2013, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-man-questions/674881/15 "2013-11-27T06:18:31Z")
In the original play, Caffee found the discarded original flight logs. Rob Reiner, director of the movie, complained to Aaron Sorkin “ **I** could win the case with that!” Sorkin rewrote the scene, then rewrote it for the play as well. Caffee used the two subpoenaed airmen to trick Nicholson’s character into admitting he ordered the Code Red.
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### Author:  [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2013, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-man-questions/674881/16 "2013-11-27T12:03:50Z")
It was the, “I’m sorry miss, the dog ate my homework”, defense.
I remember when we used to have to read books and then do the assignment. Damn kids now can’t even be arsed to watch a movie.
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### Author:  [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2013, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-man-questions/674881/17 "2013-11-27T12:22:44Z")
No it was the “I was sick the day they taught law at law school” defense.
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### Author:  [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2013, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-man-questions/674881/18 "2013-11-27T14:34:21Z")
I love the look of defeat Kevin Bacon gives after Jessup sucks all the air out of the room- it’s a blank-eyed stare that shows you he’s looking for options in his head and coming up empty.
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### Author:  [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2013, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-man-questions/674881/19 "2013-11-27T14:55:04Z")
I finally saw the play last year. It was excellent and the actors did a wonderful job.
Interesting anecdote - I first saw this movie on my Basic Training at the end of our first field experience (the lighter, easier one you do prior to the fully dug-in and offensive one). They actually dragged a TV, VCR and generator out into this field and we all sat and watched it. We were all fully “cammed” up (wearing face paint and covered in twigs and grass) and had our weapons (of course). It was kind of surreal to sit in the middle of this field on Basic and watch the movie.
It’s one of my favourite movie-watching experiences.
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### Author:  [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-man-questions/674881/20 "2013-11-27T16:30:04Z")
I always wondered why Col Jessup gave a rat’s arse about the murdered Marine. He’s got better things to do than babysit one ragbag, he’s got a whole battalion of Marines sitting right on top of the enemy plus all the political BS that comes with being a high ranking officer in a highly visible command who’s being groomed for something even bigger. A colonel would barely know the privates under him. Those privates report to sergeants and lieutenants who would be more knowledgeable of their abilities, needs, and shortcomings.
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