# A Few Good Men - Plot hole I've missed until today
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-men-plot-hole-ive-missed-until-today/594771
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [August 31, 2011, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-men-plot-hole-ive-missed-until-today/594771 "2011-08-31T18:02:44Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-men-plot-hole-ive-missed-until-today/594771/61 "2011-09-02T19:25:55Z")
He doesn’t think he’s untouchable.
His “I’m gonna get on a plane and get back to my base!” at the end was said in a panic. He knew it was the end for him.
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### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-men-plot-hole-ive-missed-until-today/594771/62 "2011-09-02T19:35:33Z")
> [@mlees](#):
>
> If that’s the case, then why try to cover up the death of Santiago in the first place?
>
> If Jessup believes that he is that untouchable, why falsify paperwork (the Transfer Order), the flight logbooks, and the initial reporting of the incident in the first place?
When he keeps cool while comfortably putting officers from lieutenant on _ **up** _ off-balance and in their place, he can take the time to calmly make sensible decisions about covering up what he’s done; even if he feels he’s entitled to be the ultimate authority who answers to no one, he knows he’s not. But when he’s irritated and raising his voice while being made to look weak and disrespected, emotion can override irrationality long enough for him to openly proclaim what he quietly feels entitled to.
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### Author:  [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-men-plot-hole-ive-missed-until-today/594771/63 "2011-09-02T19:36:02Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#):
>
> He doesn’t think he’s untouchable.
>
> His “I’m gonna get on a plane and get back to my base!” at the end was said in a panic. He knew it was the end for him.
He bold as brass admitted that Code Reds were still a valuable tool when Caffee and Galloway lunched with him in Cuba. That’s pretty dumb, too, in my book.
That’s why I thought maybe he thought he was untouchable. Sure, brag to the junior officers. Even if they found someone who gave a shit, the incident would be swept under the rug (which it almost was). I think he thought he had more pull than he really did.
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### Author:  [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2011, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-men-plot-hole-ive-missed-until-today/594771/64 "2011-09-02T19:40:18Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#):
>
> He doesn’t think he’s untouchable.
>
> His “I’m gonna get on a plane and get back to my base!” at the end was said in a panic. He knew it was the end for him.
I saw no panic there at all. I saw _entitlement_. Caffey was wasting his time, and he was done. He expected both the judge and the prosectuor to back him up, and was genuinely surprised when they didn’t. Recall also that he felt free to criticize the judge’s conduct of the trial _to his face_, and in _open court_.
Jessup was the king of arrogance.
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### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-men-plot-hole-ive-missed-until-today/594771/65 "2011-09-02T19:42:31Z")
> [@mlees](#):
>
> He bold as brass admitted that Code Reds were still a valuable tool when Caffee and Galloway lunched with him in Cuba.
_“You asked me about Code Reds. On the record, I discourage it. Off the record, it’s an invaluable part of training. If it goes on without my knowledge, so be it. That’s how I run my unit. If you want to investigate me, take your chances.”_
Not quite bold as brass, IMHO.
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### Author:  [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2011, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-men-plot-hole-ive-missed-until-today/594771/66 "2011-09-02T19:46:24Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#):
>
> When he keeps cool while comfortably putting officers from lieutenant on _ **up** _ off-balance and in their place, he can take the time to calmly make sensible decisions about covering up what he’s done; even if he feels he’s entitled to be the ultimate authority who answers to no one, he knows he’s not. But when he’s irritated and raising his voice while being made to look weak and disrespected, emotion can override irrationality long enough for him to openly proclaim what he quietly feels entitled to.
That’s what I don’t get, either. Jessup’s character is still not consistant, here.
According to Markinson (who went to the Academy with him, and may have served with him at other postings), Jessup was about to be appointed as Director of [something], and “you don’t get that far/high without knowing how to sidestep a few land mines”.
I got the impression that Jessup was a decorated officer. Capt. Ross said Jessup was distinguished/decorated. (Maybe he even had several prestigious combat unit commands, and possibly was in Gulf War I. The movie is from '92.)
Does a guy who is decorated, distinguished, that hard core, intelligent enough to become a Director of [something], and possibly a veteran combat commander sound like someone who would be so easilly tripped up on the witness stand, even by his own ego?
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### Author:  [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-men-plot-hole-ive-missed-until-today/594771/67 "2011-09-02T19:47:56Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#):
>
> _“You asked me about Code Reds. On the record, I discourage it. Off the record, it’s an invaluable part of training. If it goes on without my knowledge, so be it. That’s how I run my unit. If you want to investigate me, take your chances.”_
>
> Not quite bold as brass, IMHO.
Hell, he even engages with a little sexual harassment with Galloway, too. Bold as brass, he was.
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### Author:  [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2011, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-men-plot-hole-ive-missed-until-today/594771/68 "2011-09-02T20:08:58Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#):
>
> I saw no panic there at all. I saw _entitlement_.
He was arrogant but also smart enough to know he had just fked himself. By the time he said “I’m gonna get on a plane…”, everyone in that room–including him–knew he wasn’t going to be getting on any planes any time soon. He was making a last ditch attempt to posture like a tough guy. I saw desperation in that.
> [@mless](#):
>
> Does a guy who is decorated, distinguished, that hard core, intelligent enough to become a Director of [something], and possibly a veteran combat commander sound like someone who would be so easilly tripped up on the witness stand, even by his own ego?
Doesn’t seem _that_ implausible to me if you accept the idea that he’s a man unaccustomed to being needled, especially in front of spectators. If everyone in his daily life blindly accepts whatever he says, without question, I can see how an egomanic like Jessup could get thrown by someone suddenly challenging him to explain himself.
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### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-men-plot-hole-ive-missed-until-today/594771/69 "2011-09-02T20:09:41Z")
> [@mlees](#):
>
> According to Markinson (who went to the Academy with him, and may have served with him at other postings), Jessup was about to be appointed as Director of [something], and “you don’t get that far/high without knowing how to sidestep a few land mines”.
He did sidestep a few landmines: he falsified the flight logs, post-dated a transfer order and got Trusted Underling #1 to sign off on it sure as he got Trusted Underling #2 to lie for him under oath – all of which is presumably meant as mere support for the big-picture sidestep: getting a plea-bargain-happy Lieutenant Junior Grade with no courtroom experience assigned on defense, thereby maximizing the chances of quickly settling everything out of court; failing that, it’s still a healthy amount of prep work for the trial that ensues, where Jessup doesn’t stammer a bit when calmly taking apart what he thinks is Kaffee’s best shot:
_“My answer is I don’t have the first damn clue. Maybe he was an early riser and liked to pack in the morning. And maybe he didn’t have any friends. I’m an educated man, but I’m afraid I can’t speak intelligently about the travel habits of William Santiago. What I do know is that he was set to leave the base at 0600. Now, are these the questions I was really called here to answer? Phone calls and foot lockers? Please tell me that you have something more, Lieutenant. These two Marines are on trial for their lives. Please tell me their lawyer hasn’t pinned their hopes to a phone bill.”_
He’s so sure that Kaffee’s got nothing else that he then rises to leave. He _ **can** _ be goaded into a brief moment of prideful honesty under pressure, but don’t pretend he’s not slick enough to sidestep plenty of stuff first.
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### Author:  [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-men-plot-hole-ive-missed-until-today/594771/70 "2011-09-02T20:10:17Z")
> [@Sauron](#):
>
> I’m very fuzzy on the details, because it’s been years since I’ve seen the movie all the way through, so my answer may not be right.
>
> Didn’t Demi Moore’s character have herself named the defense attorney for Private Downey by going to Downey’s aunt or something like that? Seems like it was her move to put Downey on the stand, although I bet Caffey had to sign off on it.
Well, she did [del]suggest that she be the one[/del] [del]offer to be the one[/del] [del]suggest that it be she[/del] [del]suggest, most strenuously, that it be she who would be the one to[/del] to take on this case…
And nice to see you here again, **Sauron**!
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### Author:  [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-men-plot-hole-ive-missed-until-today/594771/71 "2011-09-02T20:13:16Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#):
>
> He did sidestep a few landmines: he falsified the flight logs, post-dated a transfer order and got Trusted Underling #1 to sign off on it sure as he got Trusted Underling #2 to lie for him under oath – all of which is presumably meant as mere support for the big-picture sidestep: getting a plea-bargain-happy Lieutenant Junior Grade with no courtroom experience assigned on defense, thereby maximizing the chances of quickly settling everything out of court; failing that, it’s still a healthy amount of prep work for the trial that ensues, where Jessup doesn’t stammer a bit when calmly taking apart what he thinks is Kaffee’s best shot:
>
> _“My answer is I don’t have the first damn clue. Maybe he was an early riser and liked to pack in the morning. And maybe he didn’t have any friends. I’m an educated man, but I’m afraid I can’t speak intelligently about the travel habits of William Santiago. What I do know is that he was set to leave the base at 0600. Now, are these the questions I was really called here to answer? Phone calls and foot lockers? Please tell me that you have something more, Lieutenant. These two Marines are on trial for their lives. Please tell me their lawyer hasn’t pinned their hopes to a phone bill.”_
>
> He’s so sure that Kaffee’s got nothing else that he then rises to leave. He _ **can** _ be goaded into a brief moment of prideful honesty under pressure, but don’t pretend he’s not slick enough to sidestep plenty of stuff first.
The sidestepping you listed above (the flight logs, the transfer order) was done after Kaffee was assigned the case, not before.
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### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-men-plot-hole-ive-missed-until-today/594771/72 "2011-09-02T20:24:09Z")
> [@mlees](#):
>
> The sidestepping you listed above (the flight logs, the transfer order) was done after Kaffee was assigned the case, not before.
Right. You choose Tom Cruise from among all other lawyers because he’s the one most likely to plea-bargain instead of try the case in court, as he would with anything from a dime bag of oregano on down – and then you smoothly fake as many supporting details as you can to increase the odds he’ll accept a good offer from Kevin Bacon, with the side benefit of strengthening your position in the unlikely event that any of this ever sees the inside of a courtroom. It doesn’t matter which order you do it in; what matters is, they’re both slick. He doesn’t have a limitless amount of landmine-sidestepping prowess, but he’s got plenty.
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### Author:  [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2011, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-men-plot-hole-ive-missed-until-today/594771/73 "2011-09-02T20:31:22Z")
> [@mlees](#):
>
> Hell, he even engages with a little sexual harassment with Galloway, too. Bold as brass, he was.
I always wondered if his singling out Lt. Weinberg during his “pick up a weapon and stand a post” rant was intended as anti-semitism.
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### Author:  [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2011, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-men-plot-hole-ive-missed-until-today/594771/74 "2011-09-02T20:37:30Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#):
>
> Right. You choose Tom Cruise from among all other lawyers because he’s the one most likely to plea-bargain instead of try the case in court, as he would with anything from a dime bag of oregano on down – and then you smoothly fake as many supporting details as you can to increase the odds he’ll accept a good offer from Kevin Bacon, with the side benefit of strengthening your position in the unlikely event that any of this ever sees the inside of a courtroom. It doesn’t matter which order you do it in; what matters is, they’re both slick. He doesn’t have a limitless amount of landmine-sidestepping prowess, but he’s got plenty.
1. But if he is so arrogant to use sexual harassment language to Galloway in front of a half dozen witnesses, bold enough to tell Dawson/Downey’s Defence lawyers to their face that he condones Code Reds, why would he feel the need to pin the blame of Santiago’s death on two junior enlisted men? Hell, why not hang that Doctor (the one who signed off on Santiago’s health in the first damn place)?
“Yeah, I condone Code Red’s. We ensure that at no time is there any danger to an otherwise healthy Marine. But that Doctor slipped up.” What’s even better, it’s the truth!
1. If he’s smart and experienced enough to know how to “sidestep landmines”, why blurt it out in court? If you had to go through the motions of burying a tragic accident, why make it harder on yourself (and your supporters and people owing you favors) by saying so on the witness stand?
It’s a cool movie with very quotable dialog (“You can’t handle the Truth!”). I am only discussing a potential weak part in the plot. 🙂
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### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-men-plot-hole-ive-missed-until-today/594771/75 "2011-09-02T20:38:56Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#):
>
> I always wondered if his singling out Lt. Weinberg during his “pick up a weapon and stand a post” rant was intended as anti-semitism.
When I first heard that line I thought it was “pick up a weapon and stand opposed.”
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### Author:  [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2011, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-men-plot-hole-ive-missed-until-today/594771/76 "2011-09-02T20:41:03Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#):
>
> I always wondered if his singling out Lt. Weinberg during his “pick up a weapon and stand a post” rant was intended as anti-semitism.
Hmmm. I am a small guy. I always assumed that Weinburg might have been seen by Jessup as a weak guy: A little flabby, probably not able to do more than 10 push ups before gassing out, no weathered tan (which indicates a life of “ease” in some office as a Rear Echelon Muther Farker).
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### Author:  [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2011, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-men-plot-hole-ive-missed-until-today/594771/77 "2011-09-02T20:43:21Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#):
>
> When I first heard that line I thought it was “pick up a weapon and stand opposed.”
It was.
But “pick up and stand opposed” came after he singled out Weinberg.
His statement was “who is going to stand on that wall? You, Lt. Kaffee? You, Lt. Weinberg?”
Both Kaffee and Weinberg were seen by him as REMF’s.
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2011, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-men-plot-hole-ive-missed-until-today/594771/78 "2011-09-02T20:52:07Z")
I’ll stand the wall. It’s fucking Cuba. Nothing’s going to happen. I’ll dance on the wall naked with a “FUCK CASTRO” sign.
Jessup’s speech in this movie is like Alec Baldwin’s in _Gengarry_. It often gets taken completely opposite of how it should be taken. Jessup is full of shit. He doesn’t have “responsibility you can’t comprehend.” He doesn’t “provide freedom.” he’s just a bureaucrat with a bloated ego.
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### Author:  [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2011, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-men-plot-hole-ive-missed-until-today/594771/79 "2011-09-02T21:01:18Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#):
>
> I’ll stand the wall. It’s fucking Cuba. Nothing’s going to happen. I’ll dance on the wall naked with a “FUCK CASTRO” sign.
>
> Jessup’s speech in this movie is like Alec Baldwin’s in _Gengarry_. It often gets taken completely opposite of how it should be taken. Jessup is full of shit. He doesn’t have “responsibility you can’t comprehend.” He doesn’t “provide freedom.” he’s just a bureaucrat with a bloated ego.
So… was this a plot hole for you?
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### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-good-men-plot-hole-ive-missed-until-today/594771/80 "2011-09-02T21:03:32Z")
> [@mlees](#):
>
> 1. But if he is so arrogant to use sexual harassment language to Galloway in front of a half dozen witnesses, bold enough to tell Dawson/Downey’s Defence lawyers to their face that he condones Code Reds, why would he feel the need to pin the blame of Santiago’s death on two junior enlisted men?
The blame is already on 'em; someone is dead, and they killed him. Jessup just doesn’t bother pinning it on someone else instead; he wants them to plea-bargain for a light sentence as if their lawyer has opposing counsel by the balls, not to start things moving up the chain.
> [@](#):
>
> If he’s smart and experienced enough to know how to “sidestep landmines”, why blurt it out in court?
He presumably sidesteps landmines in general by doing his best to ensure the people he works with are willing to do pretty much anything for him, which typically buys him enough breathing room – and he needs very little – to calmly figure out the optimal plan, be it falsifying records or arranging to get the right officer assigned to the right job or whatever (and as long as his pride isn’t at issue, he probably makes the right sidestep-a-landmine decisions with no prep time at all). And before reaching his present rank, he probably used to _ **be** _ a do-pretty-much-anything-for-my-commanding-officer guy; picture Kiefer Sutherland’s character coming up through the ranks in Vietnam two or three decades earlier and you might not be too far off.
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