A Few Good Men - Plot hole I've missed until today

Not at all. Just a side observation. It’s a very well written scene. I just watched it again. Jessup always just pisses me off, though.

Nah, it’s “stand a post.”

Jessup: I’ll answer it. You want answers?

Kaffee: I think I’m entitled to them.

Jessup: You want answers?

Kaffee: I want the truth!

Jessup: You can’t handle the truth! Son we live in a world that has walls and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who’s going to do it? You? You Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: That Santiago’s death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don’t want the truth because deep down in places you don’t talk about at parties you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a lifetime spent defending something. You use them as a punchline! I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said ‘thank you’ and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don’t give a damn what you think you are entitled to!

Kaffee: Did you order the Code Red?

Jessup: I did the job-

Kaffee: Did you order the Code Red?!

Jessup: YOU’RE GOD DAMN RIGHT I DID!

Jessup isn’t necessarily intending to side-step the Code Red in the beginning after all, “he runs his unit how he runs his unit” but when Santiago died - he was in some deep trouble - foisting blame onto the doctor doesn’t get him out of it, because the Code Red, while not intending to kill Willie, did cause his death.

But wait, there are two marines, one that has a motive since he was involved in the fenceline shooting and they’ll just accept a plea anyway, right? How convenient! Especially since no one will look super close at anything after the plea happens…

except the plea wasn’t taken.

The rest of it, the log books and everything else, was caused because it the plea didn’t happen, even though everyone expected it would.

For what it’s worth, this movie has my “coolest movie watching venue” title. We watched it during a field exercise, in basic training, with a generator, completely “cammed up” weapons at our sides. All went well until Jessup started his “You can’t handle the truth…” speech. The generator died and a few troops raced to fill it so we could watch the ending.

Who did you guys think the protagonist was? :stuck_out_tongue:

Hmm. IMDB agrees with you. I have always heard and understood it to say “stand opposed”. Looking at it more carefully, “stand a post” makes more sense.

I have the movie and there’s a definite t sound at the end of it, too. :slight_smile:

Right, but the Marines were only following his orders. Orders he felt (contrary to what might be “politically correct”) he had every right to give. Orders he felt he could admit to on the witness stand (eventually, with a little prodding).

Santiago was cleared by the Doctor as fit for duty. The Code Red he suffered (rag in mouth, duct taped hands, head shaving) were not as bad as other Marines mentioned having gone through. (As a matter of fact, in testimony, it was related that Dawson prevented the other enlisted from doing Code Reds on Santiago before, even though they wanted to do them. )

The blame rightly belongs on the Doctor, IMO. Members of “Company Windward” had been through Code Reds before. There was no reason to think Santiago wouldn’t survive a head shaving. Jessup disobeyed a lawfull order (if that’s what is was) to drop Code Reds as disciplinary measures, but the Doctor was complacent in his medical exams.

If I was a Colonel full of ego enough to believe that my Code Reds would be glossed over, then yeah, I blame the Doctor, not the two enlisted Marines.

If it helps, stop thinking of it as a black-and-white issue. “Could I get away with admitting I gave the order? Maybe. Probably. But why risk it?”

Swap out “would be” for “might be”.

Then why the admission on the witness stand?

I don’t think his “I’m getting back to my base.” was panic. I think it was frustration at having to deal with rear area bull shit from people who don’t have a clue.

He wants to say it, because he doesn’t think it’s wrong, or that he wouldn’t be held accountable (he’s too politically connected, maybe). Do you think he would admit to a rape on the stand? I don’t.

If there was risk involved, he shouldn’t risked the admission to Code Red’s on the stand.

Offtopic: Since he did admit to violating orders, and Dawson/Downey aquitted of murder, what happens to Jessup?

Convinced to retire as a Colonel?

Hard time (a couple years) for manslaughter?

Like I said: imagine he thinks he’d probably get away with admitting it. So when he’s badgered enough on the witness stand, he can be goaded into saying the truth if you exploit his pride – but that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t decide to play it safe when calm, sure as he’d still figure on getting back to his base (for a certain value of “probably”) after getting provoked into saying it.

No, because then “probably” wouldn’t be in play. He never gets that pissed off.

That’s what he decided when he wasn’t on the stand; he got emotional on the stand; it happens. His usual strategy has probably been to avoid being in such a situation, and for all that he still does pretty well when Kaffee starts to lay into him, and probably would’ve kept on doing well if the guy had zeroed in on anything but his pride.

You’re acting as if nobody ever does anything illogical ever. He knew he’d be in deep shit for saying it, but he wanted to put the faggoty Harvard lawyer in his place and Kaffee had gotten him all worked up. He didn’t calmly state “why of course I issued the Code Red my good man”, he SHOUTED it in a RAGE at Kaffee.

Yes, that was the whole point of the last portion of the movie. He pushed Jessup’s button so well that his pride overcame his reason.

Jessup was being named Director of Operations of the National Security Council, so more than anything he’s trying to avoid becoming a political liability. So even though he runs his base how he runs his base, he still has an interest in covering up his mistake. Once Kaffee trapped him in his inconsistency, he tried to bluster his way out of it, but he wasn’t in Gitmo anymore and it didn’t fly.

I took it that way. The way he heavily emphasizes the name makes it sounds like he saying “You, Lieutenant JEW?” to me.