# A few questions about the Christian heaven **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 24, 2015, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643 "2015-10-24T17:26:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/221 "2015-10-28T14:42:38Z")
Back to the subject: For you Christian posters with children, what do you tell your children when they ask if loved ones are in Heaven? What about pets? ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/222 "2015-10-28T14:48:20Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Your notions about Buddhist child-rearing practices are as confused as those about moderate Christians. “Spare the rod spoil the child” is a specific phrasing of an idea that’s actually got nothing to do with religion and which exists in a lot of cultures irrespective of religion. There are Buddhists who spank and who give damn big beatings, same as there have always been parents from the Religions of the Book who did not. There is also the Buddhist “waking stick”, a rod or switch used be Zen Masters to whack inattentive students, because it is believed pain is a form of learning. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/223 "2015-10-28T16:31:10Z")
Is there variety and/or individuality in Heaven? ---
**Author:** ![IDtenT\_Error](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@IDtenT\_Error](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IDtenT_Error)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/224 "2015-10-28T18:24:34Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is there variety and/or individuality in Heaven? Why don’t you go there, then report back. We’ll then have the concrete evidence you’re asking for. What? You _can’t_ without _dying_? Color me surprised. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/225 "2015-10-28T18:56:45Z")
> [@IDtenT\_Error](#): > > Why don’t you go there, then report back. We’ll then have the concrete evidence you’re asking for. What? You _can’t_ without _dying_? Color me surprised. I thought this was a thread about what Christians believe. Do you have a problem with my questions? ---
**Author:** ![IDtenT\_Error](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@IDtenT\_Error](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IDtenT_Error)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/226 "2015-10-28T19:10:08Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I thought this was a thread about what Christians believe. Do you have a problem with my questions? Well, yeah. They seem (I could be reading wrong, and so welcome correction) to be based on the idea of “Is it _actually_ true?”, rather than “What do they _believe_ is true.” Two entirely different questions, but as I said, I may be reading you wrong about which question you’re responding to. People can, and do, believe mutually contradictory ideas. They just have to avoid thinking too hard about them. The first question requires thought about it, the second does not. I’m confused about which you are taking. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/227 "2015-10-28T19:16:11Z")
Those who believe they know the truth are going to post as thought their opinions were facts. The thread can proceed without making an issue regarding what is or is not true. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/228 "2015-10-28T19:26:07Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Those who believe they know the truth are going to post as thought their opinions were facts. > The thread can proceed without making an issue regarding what is or is not true. > > [/Moderating] I’m not sure what you mean by this, or which poster is being addressed. All I was doing was asking a question about how Christian parents address the issue of Heaven, loved ones and pets with their children. I didn’t bring up anything about the reality of Heaven itself, nor did I even hint that I was going to. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/229 "2015-10-28T19:31:06Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Back to the subject: For you Christian posters with children, what do you tell your children when they ask if loved ones are in Heaven? What about pets? There was a fun comic book about a guy who refused to go to Heaven, when he learned his cat was denied entry. He followed his cat to the “cat afterlife” instead. At least some dogs show pretty strong evidence of awareness of right and wrong. Maybe all dogs don’t go to Heaven…but at least a few fully deserve to. (Not a Christian, not a believer, just someone with opinions.) ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/230 "2015-10-28T19:55:35Z")
> [@IDtenT\_Error](#): > > Why don’t you go there, then report back. We’ll then have the concrete evidence you’re asking for. What? You _can’t_ without _dying_? Color me surprised. Billions have died before us, only thing that seems concrete about it, is that they’re dead. The bible lists some that went to heaven without dying. And of course, there are those that had NDE that supposedly made it. Then there is the OBE crowd who also have said to been there. It’s evidence in the form of personal revelations and holy writs, but that’s the weakest kind of evidence, nothing that has any meat on the bone. So I think the atheists will still make the best out of this life, and evidently folk that claim to believe in heaven, seem to not be in any hurry either, which is telling enough. If suicide is a sin, don’t see that many taking up hang gliding, skydiving, rock climbing, booking a trip to Syria either. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/231 "2015-10-28T20:13:00Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is there variety and/or individuality in Heaven? 12 years of Catholic schooling here, pal. Not a great deal ever taught about heaven per se in my experience, other than be good or you might not go there. Truth be told, I learned more about heaven from those Holy Bible picture books they had at the doctor’s office waiting room. The kind with the heavenly choirs of angels singing praises and supplications unto God on the tops of big billowing clouds. To be honest, I thought well if that’s heaven, that looks pretty boring. But to be fair, there are a whole ton of different beliefs about the afterlife even among Christians. Sometimes I think it’s exactly what we want it to be, just like hell. Seems to me the hardest thing for us to accept is the losing the consciousness we have now aspect of death and dying. Where does all that energy go? And if you’re just going to become a drone in the afterlife, what’s the point? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/232 "2015-10-28T20:28:57Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I’ll be glad to let you have the last word on this topic… whether that is a large or small point you want to make on either account. No need to ‘last words’. It’s a process, remember? 🙂 I hope I have provided you with something to think about and I will let you know that I appreciate these discussions (they don’t lapse into name calling or hostileness which I am grateful) because they hone my own thinking about my beliefs and my faith. So perversely my faith becomes stronger because of the arguments that you present that I have to think through (which is a very Jewish concept, mind - civil argument being a major part of religion). Anyways, I don’t have experience being an atheist in South GA. I realize my experience of being an atheist in Atlanta for 10 years is not nearly the same, but I wish you more acceptance in the future for those who claim to be following Christ. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/233 "2015-10-28T20:34:22Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is there variety and/or individuality in Heaven? Good question. I dunno. I’d like to think that there is - or at least in the Age to Come (as the Anglican theologian N.T. Wright calls it "life after life after death). Maybe in the middle period of Heaven, it’s just disembodied souls waiting for the new Heavens and the new Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/234 "2015-10-28T20:42:45Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Good question. I dunno. I’d like to think that there is - or at least in the Age to Come (as the Anglican theologian N.T. Wright calls it "life after life after death). Maybe in the middle period of Heaven, it’s just disembodied souls waiting for the new Heavens and the new Earth. Middle period? Explain, please? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/235 "2015-10-28T20:55:24Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Middle period? Explain, please? If there is an Age to Come (after Jesus comes back), the period of a separate Heaven and Earth, which we currently reside in, is the middle period. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/236 "2015-10-28T21:15:30Z")
Dante’s Paradiso is actually kind of nice. Everybody has a place, and is content with it. Dante’s vision of “The Eagle” was particularly stunning, being so far ahead of its time. The Eagle was a formation of thousands of angels – sort of like a marching band forming an image on a football field – and as they moved to make it move, it seemed animated, like a real giant eagle. When they spoke as a chorus, it seemed to speak. This suggests a partial surrender of individuality, but not a total surrender. We do the same thing every time we go and sit in a cubicle in our offices in corporate America. We’re part of something vaster than we are, but our individual contributions are still important. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/237 "2015-10-28T22:17:37Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Seems to me the hardest thing for us to accept is the losing the consciousness we have now aspect of death and dying. Where does all that energy go? And if you’re just going to become a drone in the afterlife, what’s the point? A drone is a good description, I think, of what we would have to become. Besides our own mortality, if we live long enough, we will all unfortunately have to experience such losses with loved ones. It’s living hell enough, and harder than losing our own lives, I think. Time is your friend. A week later after losing a close family member, the pain lets up slightly. A month later, a bit more. A year, and another, the pain eases and you hopefully still have a few other loved ones and good friends that still make life worth living. I look on the bright side. Time will either heal you or kill you. Either way, problem solved. I find comfort in knowing the dead do not suffer. At worse, it’s a perfect dreamless sleep. If I was wrong, and there was a God, I also find comfort in knowing any being worthy of such a title doesn’t give a hoot on whether or not you believed in him or not. And whatever our thought process of wishing this or that, doesn’t alter or change the outcome one iota (conservative theology aside), so other than entertainment value it may provide, no sense wasting time on it. So I make the most of this life, not giving thanks or being angry towards any god, because I truly don’t think any exist. Enjoyed the ride thus far, and will continue to do so as long as I have reasonably good health, and have some loved ones and close friends to share it with. If atheists are wrong, he’ll forgive us, because that’s his job. He might have some explaining to do, however, we would probably all have to be a drone to forgive him. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/238 "2015-10-29T02:24:30Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Start? Probably. However, you never simply “start” there. You insist that it is the entirety, despite the fact that there is no organically begun religion that has ever done so. (Dianetics/Scientology and Book of Mormon/Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are both actual creations with a known point of origin and history, and are the only two religions of which I am aware that actually began with a book.) > > There are many religions, (particularly in pre-literate societies), that have no scripture. The religions that do have scripture all began prior to the writing of the scripture. Insisting that the scriptures, which were written by people attempting to capture the beliefs, but which were not written prior to the beliefs, must be held up as the only correct expressions of belief is historically wrong and logically wrong. The people who wrote and organized scripture recognized that. The Books of Chronicles in the Hebrew Scriptures retell, basically, the same story as is found in Genesis through 2 Kings, but they differ in theological emphasis. Heck, Genesis, itself, starts out with two contradictory stories. The ancient Jews recognized this and yet still regarded both as Scripture. There has long been a belief that the Epistle of James was written in deliberate contrast to the declarations on Faith in the Pauline Epistle to the Romans, yet the church accepted both as scripture. > > Scripture tells stories to present a group’s understanding of truth. Yes, it is myth, but in an anthropological sense, not in the common use of the word to mean “not real.” The points of the stories are often (not always) more important than the facts stated in them. However, stories are always open to interpretation and the meanings change as the understanding of society changes. You may find this problematic, of course, and it provides no reason for you to believe anything in some group’s scripture. > > You are perfectly welcome to look at scriptural conflicts and inconsistencies and draw the conclusion that scripture, (or all of religion), fails to satisfy your desire for direction in life. However, your attempts to dictate what other people must believe and how they must regard scripture fails on your misunderstanding of how it is used among believers. The notion of some not-very-well-read internet poster dictating to several billion people the ways in which they are to regard their holy books, (in which said poster does not believe), is risible. Your insistence in dragging your error into one thread after another to declare a point that fails on the evidence is merely silly. You are very eloquent, **Tom** , I allways learn some new [insult](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/risible) or way to make a clever snide remark when I read one of your lectures… however… I must say your comments protecting the inaccuracies and contradictions in the bible are a bit odd… for the debate section… of a forum who’s stated purpose is to fight ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/239 "2015-10-29T02:39:30Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I must say your comments protecting the inaccuracies and contradictions in the bible are a bit odd… for the debate section… of a forum who’s stated purpose is to fight ignorance. This is rather meaningless. I have “protected” nothing. My statements are all accurate–which supports the goal of The Straight Dope. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/240 "2015-10-29T02:44:10Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > This is rather meaningless. I have “protected” nothing. My statements are all accurate–which supports the goal of The Straight Dope. Oh, I’m sorry, I guess I need to use another word (besides protect) to describe a 4 paragraph lecture indicating to me how I do not understand the bible or the history of religion. How about defend? Is that better? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643.md?page=13)