# A few questions about the Christian heaven **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 24, 2015, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643 "2015-10-24T17:26:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/121 "2015-10-27T21:01:15Z")
Some Christians are Christians without believing that the entire Bible is 100% fact-filled, and there is no Christian Governing Body that can kick them out of the club. Some interpret stories one way, and they are still Christians. Some interpret stories another way, and they are still Christians. Although it’s not my thing, I do understand that it’s more of a “general direction” thing than a “regimented by the book army” thing. Sorry your “Logic” thing can’t compute that. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/122 "2015-10-27T21:03:06Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Which is the precise reason why the bible is to be rejected as a “Source of Truth” instead of being relabeled as “nuanced” when faced with all of it’s inherent flaws and contradictions. Well done, now go spread your new Gospel across the land and tell me how it goes ;). ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/123 "2015-10-27T21:07:54Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Even so “narrow is the gate” has, well, a pretty narrow range of interpretation. It cannot, for example, be interpreted as an inclusive passage. Matthew 7:13-14 (NIV) “13“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” I can see a few different ways to read that, can’t you? It depends how you are looking at what it means by “life” - does it mean eternal life in Heaven? Or does it mean full life here and now (as well as later) in Christ Jesus? (This is also in Matthew right after Jesus tells people to “do to others as you would have them do unto you” which also seems like a here and now thing - though the sermons of Jesus may have been edited by the author, of course) ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/124 "2015-10-27T21:08:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Some Christians are Christians without believing that the entire Bible is 100% fact-filled, and there is no Christian Governing Body that can kick them out of the club. Some interpret stories one way, and they are still Christians. Some interpret stories another way, and they are still Christians. Although it’s not my thing, I do understand that it’s more of a “general direction” thing than a “regimented by the book army” thing. Sorry your “Logic” thing can’t compute that. Right And my landlord who owns apartment buildings and liquor stores in the low income part of town can call himself a communist… but is he really a communist? I mean, afterall… look at how many different interpretations there are/were of Marx’s writings… certainly my landlord can call himself a communist… given that there are so many working definitions of the term “communist”. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/125 "2015-10-27T21:11:15Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Right > > And my landlord who owns apartment buildings and liquor stores in the low income part of town can call himself a communist… but is he really a communist? > > I mean, afterall… look at how many different interpretations there are/were of Marx’s writings… certainly my landlord can call himself a communist… given that there are so many working definitions of the term “communist”. Well… yeah. You are trying to make his point? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/126 "2015-10-27T21:12:56Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Matthew 7:13-14 (NIV) > Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." > [@](#): > > I can see a few different ways to read that, can’t you? It depends how you are looking at what it means by “life” - does it mean eternal life in Heaven? Or does it mean full life here and now (as well as later) in Christ Jesus? I would say there is a 95% probability he is talking about the afterlife. But such ambiguity is not really a selling point for the validity of bible. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/127 "2015-10-27T21:14:22Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Well… yeah. You are trying to make his point? I was being sarcastic… no credible definition of communism accounts for the exploitation of the poor and it is specifically stated that property is theft. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/128 "2015-10-27T21:15:44Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > And my landlord who owns apartment buildings and liquor stores in the low income part of town can call himself a communist… but is he really a communist? Engels was one of the richest men in the world, I think. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/129 "2015-10-27T21:17:29Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I was being sarcastic… no credible definition of communism accounts for the exploitation of the poor and it is specifically stated that property is theft. And here you paint yourself into an interesting corner 😉 [Pierre-Joseph Proudhon - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property_is_theft)! > [@](#): > > Karl Marx, although initially favourable to Proudhon’s work, later criticised, among other things, the expression “property is theft” as self-refuting and unnecessarily confusing, writing that “… ‘theft’ as a forcible violation of property presupposes the existence of property…” and condemning Proudhon for entangling himself in “all sorts of fantasies, obscure even to himself, about true bourgeois property.”[3] ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/130 "2015-10-27T21:18:37Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Engels was one of the richest men in the world, I think. Yes, his family owned textile plants, I believe. So that would make him a hypocrite. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/131 "2015-10-27T21:19:36Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I would say there is a 95% probability he is talking about the afterlife. But such ambiguity is not really a selling point for the validity of bible. It’s your interpretation, isn’t it? I would, on the contrary, argue that hard and fast rules that apply for all time isn’t really a very good selling point for the validity of Scripture - after all, perfect God, imperfect human writers, imperfect human language. Why we are always like Jacob, wrestling with God (or, in these terms, with what we think His will is). ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/132 "2015-10-27T21:20:44Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Yes, his family owned textile plants, I believe. So that would make him a hypocrite. I find it somewhat interesting that you have set yourself up as an authority on what consists of proper organizational membership for every possible organization. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/133 "2015-10-27T21:21:22Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > And here you paint yourself into an interesting corner 😉 Not really [108](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18809127&postcount=108) - I am using this example as an analogy only. I am not claiming to have perfect understanding of Marx or communism. So if there is an error in my analogy look to the main point I am trying to get across. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/134 "2015-10-27T21:23:15Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > I find it somewhat interesting that you have set yourself up as an authority on what consists of proper organizational membership for every possible organization. I find it interesting that instead of looking at a the basic point I am trying to make, and the inherent logic of not trusting contradictory, ambiguous collections of writings… that you would instead focus your efforts on trying to demonstrate my supposed lack of understanding of communism. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/135 "2015-10-27T21:23:50Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Where do they go? Are they stored somewhere? I dunno, but just think of how those martyrs are going to feel, after being promised 72 virgins! Ah man, God, he’s such a practical joker! :eek: :smack:😕 ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/136 "2015-10-27T21:25:06Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Not really [108](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18809127&postcount=108) > > - I am using this example as an analogy only. I am not claiming to have perfect understanding of Marx or communism. So if there is an error in my analogy look to the main point I am trying to get across. You realize that in my link, Marx explicitly does not accept “property is theft”, right? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/137 "2015-10-27T21:26:13Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Right > > And my landlord who owns apartment buildings and liquor stores in the low income part of town can call himself a communist… but is he really a communist? > > I mean, afterall… look at how many different interpretations there are/were of Marx’s writings… certainly my landlord can call himself a communist… given that there are so many working definitions of the term “communist”. I hate to break it to you, but your definition of “Christian” is absolute garbage. [It has absolutely nothing to do with believing that the entire Bible is totally factual and must be followed to the letter.](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/christian) According to this(and just about every other) dictionary, you’ve just got to be a follower of this character called Jesus Christ. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/138 "2015-10-27T21:26:21Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I find it interesting that instead of looking at a the basic point I am trying to make, and the inherent logic of not trusting contradictory, ambiguous collections of writings… that you would instead focus your efforts on trying to demonstrate my supposed lack of understanding of communism. Your basic point is pretty narrow minded it seems to me. Just as your understanding of communism is, I’m afraid. You can’t just define words for other people and think everyone is going to go along with you because, I dunno… your force of constantly repeating yourself. I mean, really. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/139 "2015-10-27T21:27:22Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > It’s your interpretation, isn’t it? I would, on the contrary, argue that hard and fast rules that apply for all time isn’t really a very good selling point for the validity of Scripture - after all, perfect God, imperfect human writers, imperfect human language. Why we are always like Jacob, wrestling with God (or, in these terms, with what we think His will is). No, we are not like Jacob wrestling with angels. We are much smarter than that. Nor is god helpless in this situation. If he wanted to correct the ambiguity and contradiction of the bible, he could easily do so. Unless, of course, the christian god does not actually exist. If that is true it would indeed be pretty hard for us to get the amended corrected version ff the bible. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643/140 "2015-10-27T21:28:57Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > You realize that in my link, Marx explicitly does not accept “property is theft”, right? I am using this example as an analogy only. I am not claiming to have perfect understanding of Marx or communism. So if there is an error in my analogy look to the main point I am trying to get across. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-few-questions-about-the-christian-heaven/735643.md?page=8)