# A football rule question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 7, 2008, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-football-rule-question/432582 "2008-01-07T07:57:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2008, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-football-rule-question/432582/1 "2008-01-07T07:57:21Z")
I should probably know the answer to this but it’s 3:00 in the morning and my brain isn’t working a full speed. A football team (American NFL style football) is on fourth down at their ten yard line. For strategic reasons they decide they have to try for the first down rather than punt. The quarterback throws the ball and it’s intercepted by an opposing player at the thirty yard line and he’s tackled there. Where does the opposing team gain possession? Normally if a team turns over the ball on a fourth down the opposing team gains possession at the line of scrimmage. But also normally if a player intercepts the ball, his team gains possession at the point of interception (assuming he doesn’t run it back). In the play I described, the team gained possession by two different means in a single play. Which one takes precedence? Offhand, I’d assume the possession would start at the ten yard line because if there’s a discrepancy I’d assume it would be decided in favor of the team gaining possession. I would also assume a team wouldn’t be effectively penalized twenty yards for making an interception. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2008, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-football-rule-question/432582/2 "2008-01-07T08:00:49Z")
If the defender catches the ball, the result of the play is an interception and a turnover via that interception, not a turnover on downs. The ball would be placed at the spot of the tackle. In many cases, it is better for the defender to KNOCK THE BALL DOWN instead of making a 4th down INT. ---
**Author:** ![babygirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/57b2e6/32.png) [@babygirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/babygirl)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2008, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-football-rule-question/432582/3 "2008-01-07T08:03:06Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] I should probably know the answer to this but it’s 3:00 in the morning and my brain isn’t working a full speed. A football team (American NFL style football) is on fourth down at their ten yard line. For strategic reasons they decide they have to try for the first down rather than punt. The quarterback throws the ball and it’s intercepted by an opposing player at the thirty yard line and he’s tackled there. Where does the opposing team gain possession? Normally if a team turns over the ball on a fourth down the opposing team gains possession at the line of scrimmage. But also normally if a player intercepts the ball, his team gains possession at the point of interception (assuming he doesn’t run it back). In the play I described, the team gained possession by two different means in a single play. Which one takes precedence? Offhand, I’d assume the possession would start at the ten yard line because if there’s a discrepancy I’d assume it would be decided in favor of the team gaining possession. I would also assume a team wouldn’t be effectively penalized twenty yards for making an interception. [/QUOTE] The rules don’t change for a first or fourth down interception. Possession starts from the point of possession. That is, if the defense gets the ball at the 10 yard line, they start the possession at the 10 yard line. ---
**Author:** ![D\_White](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@D\_White](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_White)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2008, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-football-rule-question/432582/4 "2008-01-07T08:11:20Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] Normally if a team turns over the ball on a fourth down the opposing team gains possession at the line of scrimmage. [/QUOTE] If by normally you mean when the other team doesn’t gain possession of the ball, you’re correct. But any time a team gains possession of a ball, the location the player with the ball gets tackled, runs out of bounds, etc., is the intercepting team’s first down line. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2008, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-football-rule-question/432582/5 "2008-01-07T08:44:24Z")
From the NFL rulebook (Rule 7, Section 1) > [@](#): > > Article 3 > If offensive team fails to advance ball to necessary line during a given series, it is awarded to defensive team for a new series at the spot: > (a) **where dead at end of fourth down** ; or > (b) where it is placed because of a combination penalty (14-8-2) or a touchback for defensive team. (my bolding) If the defense didn’t run the ball back for a touchdown, that’s their problem 😛 ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2008, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-football-rule-question/432582/6 "2008-01-07T14:36:14Z")
It’s a matter of the defender have some “game sense”. You have to know the down and the circumstances. The rules aren’t suppose to reward you for being stupid. Of course, many of these oafs are so full of themselves that they can’t resist the temptation to try to return an interception for a touchdown instead of just knocking the ball down. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2008, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-football-rule-question/432582/7 "2008-01-07T14:36:44Z")
[QUOTE=D\_White] If by normally you mean when the other team doesn’t gain possession of the ball, you’re correct. But any time a team gains possession of a ball, the location the player with the ball gets tackled, runs out of bounds, etc., is the intercepting team’s first down line. [/QUOTE] Do you mean, “…intercepting team’s _line of scrimmage_”? Also, **Tapioca Dextrin** ’s quote of the rulebook shows that the defense takes the ball where the ball became dead, not at the line of scrimmage, as stated in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2008, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-football-rule-question/432582/8 "2008-01-07T18:12:41Z")
As said - the interception causes a change of possession, so the intercepting team gets the ball where he’s tackled. The change of possession starts everything over - which also means that if the offense is 4th & 10 at their own 10, the defender intercepts at the 30, the defender runs towards the goal but fumbles at the 10 and the original offensive team recovers the fumble, they get a new 1st down at their own 10, even though the play started for them as 4th and 10 from the same spot.