# A former Republican's awakening about voter ID laws. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 16, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-former-republicans-awakening-about-voter-id-laws/637911 "2012-10-16T18:36:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-former-republicans-awakening-about-voter-id-laws/637911/41 "2012-10-17T16:52:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If I were a legislator I would provide for a thumbprint to be taken at voting time and placed next to each voter’s name. Then I’d toss out the need for photo IDs in their entirety. > > This would meet my goal of having prosecutable evidence of in-person fraud and be a much cheaper alternative. Out of curiosity, what is your estimate of the cost of such a system? ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-former-republicans-awakening-about-voter-id-laws/637911/42 "2012-10-17T17:11:09Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If I were a legislator I would provide for a thumbprint to be taken at voting time and placed next to each voter’s name. Then I’d toss out the need for photo IDs in their entirety. > > This would meet my goal of having prosecutable evidence of in-person fraud and be a much cheaper alternative. How does a thumbprint prove you live at the address stated on the voter rolls? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-former-republicans-awakening-about-voter-id-laws/637911/43 "2012-10-17T17:18:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If I were a legislator I would provide for a thumbprint to be taken at voting time and placed next to each voter’s name. Then I’d toss out the need for photo IDs in their entirety. > > This would meet my goal of having prosecutable evidence of in-person fraud and be a much cheaper alternative. But that wasn’t my question. My question was about voter confidence. I may not have made it clear that I was linking that to my “what would you do question”. If photo ID failed to solve the voter confidence issue, would you then advocate spending money on a campaign of voter education to assure everyone that voter ID has solved the fraud problem and all is now well? Or are you saying that only thumbprints will solve the confidence problem? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-former-republicans-awakening-about-voter-id-laws/637911/44 "2012-10-17T17:49:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Meanwhile, Voter ID laws still enjoy large majority support among the actual voting public. I agree. Civil rights issues should _not_ be determined by majority support. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-former-republicans-awakening-about-voter-id-laws/637911/45 "2012-10-17T19:41:13Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Point of order: You were talking about a contingent of people on the SDMB, but here you’re talking about people involved in a legal process. I’ll understand you to be referring to the latter from now on. > > In any case, I’m not aware of anyone who sought to block operation of the Voter ID laws in states which had already approved them and in which they had passed judicial scrutiny. Can you point me to the cases you have in mind? In what way did the seek to block operation? No, I’m talking about the posters on the SDMB who wanted the Voter ID laws scuttled. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-former-republicans-awakening-about-voter-id-laws/637911/46 "2012-10-17T19:42:20Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > How does a thumbprint prove you live at the address stated on the voter rolls? It doesn’t. It just proves you were the person that claimed to lie at that address. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-former-republicans-awakening-about-voter-id-laws/637911/47 "2012-10-17T19:43:27Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I agree. Civil rights issues should _not_ be determined by majority support. How should they be determined? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-former-republicans-awakening-about-voter-id-laws/637911/48 "2012-10-17T19:49:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How should they be determined? Well, in the short term by elected representatives but ultimately by an independent judiciary using a formal constitution and evolving societal standards as a guide. Not a perfect approach, to be sure, but I’m not familiar with a consistently better one. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-former-republicans-awakening-about-voter-id-laws/637911/49 "2012-10-17T20:20:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, I’m talking about the posters on the SDMB who wanted the Voter ID laws scuttled. Okay, what I’m trying to get you to do, **Bricker** , is explain how what you’re accusing others of (“imposing,” “wanting scuttled,” etc) is different from simply disagreeing with a law. If I say “three strikes laws are wrong,” am I, by saying that, imposing my will on voters, and do I, by saying that, show that I want the law scuttled? If not, what more do I have to do to be imposing my will and to show that I want the law scuttled? And how specifically have people on the SDMB done that something-more that you are talking about when you use these terms? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-former-republicans-awakening-about-voter-id-laws/637911/50 "2012-10-17T21:12:19Z")
Bricker: (1) What do you think about the specific claims made in the article linked in the OP. Do they in any way trouble you or make you reconsider your position? They clearly did so for the author of that article… what does he know that you don’t, or vice versa? (2) I think it’s fairly meaningless to say that we lefties want to impose our will on the majority, here. Lots of people here are expressing opinions that these laws are bad public policy, with varying levels of specific claims about whether they’re unconstitutional or not. But I don’t see a lot of people saying “hey, those laws should just not exist just because I say so”. I mean, people all the time on both sides about all sorts of issues say that a particular law or public policy is bad, that they would prefer it to be a different way… is every example of that “wanting to impose their will on the majority”? If not, what’s the difference? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-former-republicans-awakening-about-voter-id-laws/637911/51 "2012-10-18T02:51:32Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. Voter ID laws have been passed by elected legislatures – even Rhode Island’s Democratic-controlled legislature! – and signed into law by elected governors, even Rhode Island’s Democratic governor. > > And they enjoy overwhelming public support. > > But the SMDB Cadre wants to impose their minority, unelected will and sweep away those laws. Democracy as the last refuge of a scoundrel? California’s old Prop 183 also passed by a huge margin and had broad support. It was also unconstitutional. Funny little thing. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-former-republicans-awakening-about-voter-id-laws/637911/52 "2012-10-18T04:35:31Z")
Well, if Bricker’s home state ever majority-vote passes the “Anyone Can Kick Bricker in the Nuts on Friday” law, he can be assured that us SDMB cadre types will oppose it, and not because we’re particularly fond of Bricker or his nuts, but because we recognize the inherent flaw in allowing majorities to determine law. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-former-republicans-awakening-about-voter-id-laws/637911/53 "2012-10-18T05:27:29Z")
I think a special day to kick lawyers in the nuts is marketable, if not strictly legal. “Good Friday? How about a **GREAT** Friday!” ---
**Author:** ![Randvek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@Randvek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randvek)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-former-republicans-awakening-about-voter-id-laws/637911/54 "2012-10-18T05:58:47Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, if Bricker’s home state ever majority-vote passes the “Anyone Can Kick Bricker in the Nuts on Friday” law, he can be assured that us SDMB cadre types will oppose it, and not because we’re particularly fond of Bricker or his nuts, but because we recognize the inherent flaw in allowing majorities to determine law. Yeah. It’s a bit shameful that Bricker has resorted to the “but it’s so popular!” line of fallacious reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-former-republicans-awakening-about-voter-id-laws/637911/55 "2012-10-18T06:51:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What’s a good measure of whether something infringes on civil rights? > > I say this does not. You say it does. Why do you win? Evidence. We have provided evidence that many people will be disenfranchised. We have provided evidence that Republicans are doing it to try to manipulate the election. We have provided evidence that there is no voter fraud to be protected against. You’ve provided nothing. All opinions are not equal. Those with evidence beat those without. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-former-republicans-awakening-about-voter-id-laws/637911/56 "2012-10-18T13:53:08Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It doesn’t. It just proves you were the person that claimed to lie at that address. Ok, so if the point of your system is to eliminate voter fraud at the poll sites and your system doesn’t do that how is it a useful system in eliminating voter fraud? One guy can go around to every voting station in the metro area, claim to be person X, put a thumb print down, vote and go on his merry way. If he’s not even in the system, you can’t catch him by trying to run his thumbprint through any databases. Meanwhile, person X shows up to the polls and can’t vote because someone else has already placed a thumb print down in his spot. Plus we’re not even getting into the cost of implementing this system. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-former-republicans-awakening-about-voter-id-laws/637911/57 "2012-10-21T14:40:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It doesn’t. It just proves you were the person that claimed to lie at that address. Has no one noticed this typo? I nominate it for Freudian slip of the month. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-former-republicans-awakening-about-voter-id-laws/637911/58 "2012-10-21T16:51:14Z")
> [@Randvek](#): > > Yeah. It’s a bit shameful that Bricker has resorted to the “but it’s so popular!” line of fallacious reasoning. I don’t think that was the point. Rather, he was pointing out the irony of people who feel that voters’ rights are absolutely sacred things–except when used for purposes we disagree with, in which case we can sweep them aside. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-former-republicans-awakening-about-voter-id-laws/637911/59 "2012-10-21T17:23:43Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > I don’t think that was the point. Rather, he was pointing out the irony of people who feel that voters’ rights are absolutely sacred things–except when used for purposes we disagree with, in which case we can sweep them aside. I think that’s a very apt and succinct description of how the Republicans who are trying to implement these voter ID laws feel about voting rights. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-former-republicans-awakening-about-voter-id-laws/637911/60 "2012-10-22T00:10:22Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Evidence. We have provided evidence that many people will be disenfranchised. We have provided evidence that Republicans are doing it to try to manipulate the election. We have provided evidence that there is no voter fraud to be protected against. > > You’ve provided nothing. All opinions are not equal. Those with evidence beat those without. Who evaluates the evidence and decides which set is compelling? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-former-republicans-awakening-about-voter-id-laws/637911.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-former-republicans-awakening-about-voter-id-laws/637911.md?page=4)