# A frame is a rectangular object you can put a document in and hang from the wall. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 20, 2003, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-frame-is-a-rectangular-object-you-can-put-a-document-in-and-hang-from-the-wall/183066 "2003-06-20T02:32:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-frame-is-a-rectangular-object-you-can-put-a-document-in-and-hang-from-the-wall/183066/1 "2003-06-20T02:32:44Z")
In a burst of extreme - some might say vulgar - market acumen, McGill printed their diplomas this year on 11x17 paper. This is not a standard frame size; naturally, the only place that sells 11x17 frames is the McGill Bookstore, for $75. I took my business elsewhere, to a local chain of art stores and frame shops (for the benefit of Montrealers, the name rhymes with “oh, Nair the stairs”) and arranged to have them produce a frame for me to my specifications. They indicated that they would produce such a frame. This would cost approximately $35 I returned some days later to pick up my frame. I saw a rectangular parcel - good good good! - but was confused by a smaller, linear parcel. The large rectangular parcel contained two pieces of cardboard and the glass for the frame. With great fanfare, the clerk unwrapped the smaller, linear parcel. It contained four metal bars of irregular cross-section. An adjoined bag contained several small metal fitments. Now as indicated, ladies and gentlemen, a frame (_un cadre_) is a rectangular object large enough to fit a document in. These were four linear objects that were not large enough to fit a document in. These folks were trying not to sell me a frame. They wanted to sell me the _parts_ for the frame (for $35) that I would then have to assemble myself to produce the frame. (Naturally, this - _kit_ - came with no instructions.) No. I had asked them (and paid them approximately a 33% deposit) to make me a _frame_. Four loose pieces of metal are not a frame. I indicated my dismay, and after some bewilderment (“but it’s _easy!_ You don’t need instructions to discern the functioning of these approximately twenty small unidentified metal fitments!”) the clerk bowed and stated he could assemble the frame for me for a small additional fee. Why, I could even come and pick it up that evening. My frame was now in limbo, partway between existing and not existing. I acquiesced. (I _really_ wanted to frame my diploma.) I returned that evening after sitting an entrance exam (to a program that will grant me another bloody diploma.) The frame was now ready. Of course, I still had to take it all apart again so I could put the diploma in it, but now that it was assembled I felt I could do this. I got it home and put it together very nice and thank you. And then I noticed something seemed to be missing. I telephoned. “Does this frame come with anything wherewith to hang it on the wall?” I inquired. “There are fitments to hang wire from, but it doesn’t have any actual wire.” “No, the frame doesn’t include wire. You have to buy your own wire.” _sigh_ Let the record show that I agreed to buy a frame. A frame is a rectangular object large enough to hold a document that you can hang from the wall. I got four linear objects that would, after some threatening, eventually be able between them to hold a document, but not to hang it from the wall. I am not a happy camper. _Caveat emptor, baccalaure artium,_ you might say. Well, _pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo._ ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-frame-is-a-rectangular-object-you-can-put-a-document-in-and-hang-from-the-wall/183066/2 "2003-06-20T02:41:17Z")
That bites doggie dongles! I don’t think I’ve seen an 11x17 diploma, though - that’s pretty impressive. I can’t believe a frame shop would be so unclear on the concept of proper frameage. Just so wrong. It’s like McDonald’s giving you a crappy hamburger when you clearly asked for the one on the giant menu behind Mayor McCheese. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-frame-is-a-rectangular-object-you-can-put-a-document-in-and-hang-from-the-wall/183066/3 "2003-06-20T02:45:50Z")
You know **matt\_mcl** must be really smart, because his diploma is so big. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Blonde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Blonde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blonde)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-frame-is-a-rectangular-object-you-can-put-a-document-in-and-hang-from-the-wall/183066/4 "2003-06-20T02:52:08Z")
Huh? My diploma came completely framed. Just kidding, of course. AND it’s size is converse to the $$ it cost to attend. ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-frame-is-a-rectangular-object-you-can-put-a-document-in-and-hang-from-the-wall/183066/5 "2003-06-20T03:14:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > **My frame was now in limbo, partway between existing and not existing.** I envision the newly graduated Dr. Schroedinger on the phone with the frame shop saying, “Well, is the frame for my diploma ready or is it not?” > [@](#): > > \*\*_Caveat emptor, baccalaure artium,_ you might say. Well, _pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo._ \*\* Well, I agree with the first part, not sure about the others. Ah, the joys of capitalism. ---
**Author:** ![Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bad_News_Baboon)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-frame-is-a-rectangular-object-you-can-put-a-document-in-and-hang-from-the-wall/183066/6 "2003-06-20T05:12:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > \*\*That bites doggie dongles! > \*\* I just had to share that my dog’s name is Dongle. Carry on… ---
**Author:** ![BadBaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71c47a/32.png) [@BadBaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BadBaby)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-frame-is-a-rectangular-object-you-can-put-a-document-in-and-hang-from-the-wall/183066/7 "2003-06-20T07:00:29Z")
My diploma is tacked up on the fridge with a magnet from the Las Vegas Liberace museum. It has sparkles and did not need assembly. You might want to look into this system for that next piece of paper you’ll be bringing home. ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-frame-is-a-rectangular-object-you-can-put-a-document-in-and-hang-from-the-wall/183066/8 "2003-06-20T07:07:53Z")
That education was obviously useful, since you seem to know exactly what a frame is. Damn Canadians. They’re pulling away from us in intelligence! ---
**Author:** ![Mariemarie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58f4c7/32.png) [@Mariemarie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mariemarie)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-frame-is-a-rectangular-object-you-can-put-a-document-in-and-hang-from-the-wall/183066/9 "2003-06-20T07:19:33Z")
Please tell us your diploma is not in any sort of Engineering 😉 ---
**Author:** ![3trew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/13edae/32.png) [@3trew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3trew)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-frame-is-a-rectangular-object-you-can-put-a-document-in-and-hang-from-the-wall/183066/10 "2003-06-20T07:39:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > \*\*… > > I don’t think I’ve seen an 11x17 diploma, though - that’s pretty impressive. > > … \*\* I have seen an 11x17 diploma. It belonged to a very old lawyer. It was impressive not only because of the size, but because of the Latin. Apparently, “Georgium” is Latin for “George”. My diplomas are in a box in my closet, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Ms\_Macphisto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b487fb/32.png) [@Ms\_Macphisto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms_Macphisto)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-frame-is-a-rectangular-object-you-can-put-a-document-in-and-hang-from-the-wall/183066/11 "2003-06-20T09:42:46Z")
Probably just as well my parents decided to spring for the $75 frame from the McGill bookstore (or however much it cost 3 years ago, I can’t remember) Of course, then I wound up in an argument with Air Canada about how to transport the bloody thing back to Vancouver, but that’s another story. And despite the frame, it’s currently sitting in a closet at my parents’ house. Oh, and **matt\_mcl** , congrats on surviving the McGill experience! ---
**Author:** ![i\_like\_bacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/54ee81/32.png) [@i\_like\_bacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/i_like_bacon)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-frame-is-a-rectangular-object-you-can-put-a-document-in-and-hang-from-the-wall/183066/12 "2003-06-20T09:45:47Z")
sometimes you can buy cheap art in nice frames in odd sizes, take it home toss the art, wooohooooo new frame! ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-frame-is-a-rectangular-object-you-can-put-a-document-in-and-hang-from-the-wall/183066/13 "2003-06-20T10:26:05Z")
Or carefully cut the document into two smaller pieces, each of which will fit nicely in an 11x8 frame. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-frame-is-a-rectangular-object-you-can-put-a-document-in-and-hang-from-the-wall/183066/14 "2003-06-20T12:39:39Z")
My diploma’s still in its tube, lying somewhere in my parents’ house. It’s in Latin, too, which is cool. **matt,** I’ve seen 11x17 frames at Wal Mart. Wood, though, but they looked nice. We bought one for our wedding picture. ---
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-frame-is-a-rectangular-object-you-can-put-a-document-in-and-hang-from-the-wall/183066/15 "2003-06-20T12:58:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Of course, I still had to take it all apart again so I could put the diploma in it Well, exactly. Had you left your diploma at the store, I am certain they would have framed it quite nicely. They are accustomed to selling a finished product but without the item to be framed on hand, there is really only so much they can do. As you state, you could have saved yourself some money by not having them assemble it and did save a little money by not having them assemble it completely. Or you could have saved yourself this hassle entirely by leaving your diploma at the store to have it framed. I concur that not providing picture wire appears lame of them until we consider that the wire generally goes on last, after the frame is closed for good. Then it can be put on and most importantly, properly trimmed to size. Sure they could have handed you a baggie with 2 feet of wire in it, but if you tied it off incorrectly it could slip, and do you have a cutter to trim off the excess? Ever taken a blood sample with picture wire? The frame’s light, try fishing line. ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-frame-is-a-rectangular-object-you-can-put-a-document-in-and-hang-from-the-wall/183066/16 "2003-06-20T13:08:11Z")
For what it’s worth (we’re fighting ignorance, right?), in my experience, when you buy a custom-sized frame at a place that services professionals, you usually get the parts and not the assembled object. The reason being that depending on how you frame your document, you might need to assemble the frame around it, instead of just slipping the piece of paper, photograph, etc. into it. So, I don’t think “Oh, mare the stare” needs to be pitted for providing you with just what their regular custommers expect. On the other hand, IMHO, they do deserve a WTF? for their funky opening hours and pricing. YMMV, I now get my stuff at Tokyu Hands. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-frame-is-a-rectangular-object-you-can-put-a-document-in-and-hang-from-the-wall/183066/17 "2003-06-20T15:40:08Z")
Matt, I’m going to highly recommend that you take your diploma and the frame to a good framing store and have them do it. I’ve seen diplomas (is of the very high-quality parchment or sheepskin variety?) completely ruined because the owner did it himself. If you don’t get a good seal, or there’s the smallest of bubbles, your diploma will wrinkle and bubble to a most extreme fashion. Seriously, pay the extra bucks to have someone do it. It’s not worth the possibility of fucking it up. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-frame-is-a-rectangular-object-you-can-put-a-document-in-and-hang-from-the-wall/183066/18 "2003-06-20T16:53:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > \*\* > _Caveat emptor, baccalaure artium,_ you might say. Well, _pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo._ \*\* Got the Caveat emptor part…what’s the rest mean? Irrumabo…hmmm. From what I remember from reading Colleen McCulluough’s _Caesar_ series, that’s has something to do with oral sex? ---
**Author:** ![AnnaLivia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/edb3f5/32.png) [@AnnaLivia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnnaLivia)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-frame-is-a-rectangular-object-you-can-put-a-document-in-and-hang-from-the-wall/183066/19 "2003-06-20T18:20:41Z")
UD, of course, must be difficult and also has a degree of the 11 by 17 variety. It only notes that I have recieved a BA- not that it is in Biology. There is no Latin (sob) and very little gold embellisment. They expect you to get it framed at the school bookstore to get the school seal and your name on the _mat_ in gold. Their samples in the bookstore are all filled with xeroxed diplomas, all made out to one John D. Sample. I am unclear as to why this has occured. Are they worried that there will be a John D. Sample who will steal a sample diploma and the only way they’ll ever know it’s a fake is because it’s black and white copy? I am cheap. I also once considered a career in art, and know how to mat my own damn diploma. I bought one of those picture frames that are made to you can make a “collage” of different size and shaped family photos, and took out their piece of paper that diveded it up into areas. Presto- 11x17 frame. On the other hand, I am also getting another BA (I have it, but they send the thing to me via post once they’ve detremined that I don’t owe them any more money) and am thinking about keeping that one as a spare in a closet. After all, it’s going to look exactly the same. (hijack) On a seperate bitch, I graduated again at the end of May. I am trying to complete my applications to grad school and need final transcripts. When will they be ready? Sometime in early July, extended by the fact I can’t just call them and ask them to send a transcript because of security reasons. I have to go there, or mail away for it, and wait three days and go pick the damned things up. I have a full time job, coinciding with their office hours. Someday I want to teach at UD just to get back at them. (/hijack) AL ---
**Author:** ![gwendee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/35a633/32.png) [@gwendee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gwendee)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-frame-is-a-rectangular-object-you-can-put-a-document-in-and-hang-from-the-wall/183066/20 "2003-06-20T20:34:50Z")
What {b]Munch\*\* said. Your 11x17 diploma would be best preserved in a larger frame with a mat border to keep it from direct contact with the glass. The backing board and matboard should be acid- and lignin-free. (Typically the bookstore mats with stamped gold are not) I won’t make your head sweim with the different types of glass. . . Now as far as this benig a pit thread, for them not to have made it clear that you would be assembling the lot yourself is poor customer service so phooey on them. Even if I had to charge you for the wire I would’ve made sure you knew you needed it before you left! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-frame-is-a-rectangular-object-you-can-put-a-document-in-and-hang-from-the-wall/183066.md?page=2)