# "A friend in need." **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 10, 2006, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-in-need/383597 "2006-12-10T20:50:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Khan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3ab097/32.png) [@Khan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khan)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2006, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-in-need/383597/1 "2006-12-10T20:50:37Z")
I was just looking for interesting quotes and the like when I found a Czech proverb that translates as "when in need, you will know a friend. “A friend in need is a friend indeed” was listed as the English equivalent. I disagree. I believe those two sentences have different meanings. Whereas the first says that a true friend will help you when you run into trouble, the second seems more cynical. That is, I interpret it to mean that your friends are more likely to come to you when they want something. I know that it’s traditionally associated with being charitable, but I don’t see how a friend needing something from you is noble _per se_. If you want to say that you’re a true friend by helping your friends in need, I could see how the expression works there, but “when in need…” seems to be a much more direct way of putting it. Is there something I’m missing here? Why is “A friend in need…” seen as such a noble expression? ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2006, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-in-need/383597/2 "2006-12-10T20:53:44Z")
[QUOTE=Khan] Is there something I’m missing here? Why is “A friend in need…” seen as such a noble expression? [/QUOTE] The friend isn’t the one in need. You are. A friend (when you’re) in need, is a friend indeed. Make more sense? ---
**Author:** ![Campion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@Campion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Campion)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2006, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-in-need/383597/3 "2006-12-10T20:56:23Z")
I’ve never understood it to mean that the friend is in need, but that I am. You’re right: if it means that my friends are needy, and that’s the only reason they hang out with me, then that isn’t really friendship. So I don’t think “in need” modifies “friend.” If one were to sacrifice the rhyming scheme, it actually should read, “A friend [who’s still there] in [your] need is [your] friend indeed.” ---
**Author:** ![Khan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3ab097/32.png) [@Khan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khan)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2006, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-in-need/383597/4 "2006-12-10T20:59:00Z")
It makes tons more sense, but what confuses me is why they leave out the few extra words you used. I know that’s what it’s supposed to mean, but to me that omission changes the meaning such that what’s intended isn’t necessarily reflected in what’s actually said. Is it supposed to be tongue-in-cheek, or something like that? ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2006, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-in-need/383597/5 "2006-12-10T21:13:45Z")
[QUOTE=Khan] I know that’s what it’s supposed to mean, but to me that omission changes the meaning such that what’s intended isn’t necessarily reflected in what’s actually said. [/QUOTE] All I can say is that it doesn’t to me. The phrasing is vaguely ambiguous, but it’s not an uncommon way of phrasing such things. Let’s change the wording just slightly. ‘A friend in a time of need is a friend indeed.’ Would you still consider that to imply it’s the friend that’s in need? To me, in any case, this phrasing removes all ambiguity, but, really, it shouldn’t. Grammatically, it’s exactly the same. The fact that ‘in a time of need’ is referring to you is still only implied, but all implication that the reference to need might be talking about the friend is eliminated. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2006, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-in-need/383597/6 "2006-12-10T21:26:58Z")
[QUOTE=Khan] It makes tons more sense, but what confuses me is why they leave out the few extra words you used. I know that’s what it’s supposed to mean, but to me that omission changes the meaning such that what’s intended isn’t necessarily reflected in what’s actually said. Is it supposed to be tongue-in-cheek, or something like that? [/QUOTE] I think the punctuation is off, which makes it confusing. Try “A friend, (when you’re) in need, is a friend, indeed.” ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2006, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-in-need/383597/7 "2006-12-10T21:46:38Z")
I have heard both interpretations, but have always gone with the less cynical version ---
**Author:** ![Tomcat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Tomcat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tomcat)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-in-need/383597/8 "2006-12-11T11:08:44Z")
[QUOTE=Khan] It makes tons more sense, but what confuses me is why they leave out the few extra words you used. I know that’s what it’s supposed to mean, but to me that omission changes the meaning such that what’s intended isn’t necessarily reflected in what’s actually said. Is it supposed to be tongue-in-cheek, or something like that? [/QUOTE] Actually, it just rolls off the tongue easier. It rhymes well. My favorite Czech saying about friends doesn’t have a direct English translation: “Kamarad taky rad.” Which is directly “Friends also like (it).” It implies that friends can also want to have sex with you. -Tcat ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-in-need/383597/9 "2006-12-11T11:21:00Z")
I have also seen it with ‘indeed’ split out to two words: ‘in deed’ - so _A friend in [your time of] need is a friend in deed_ would mean that when you’re in need, your friends may be recognised as the ones that _actually do something to help_. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-in-need/383597/10 "2006-12-11T11:29:49Z")
Or as Milton Berle once said, “A friend in need…is a _pest_!”