# A friend lies/cheats about something kinda small. Do you say anything? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Tags:** golf\ **Created:** [April 15, 2024, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-lies-cheats-about-something-kinda-small-do-you-say-anything/1000326 "2024-04-15T17:16:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2024, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-lies-cheats-about-something-kinda-small-do-you-say-anything/1000326/21 "2024-04-15T19:25:24Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > And I respect a ton of his values and how he lives his life. Just that day we had mentioned how we both think honesty is one of the most important things friends could offer each other. It seems like he thinks that the value of honesty is for other activities, or maybe for other people. I personally distrust people who have to talk at length about how honest they are or how much they value honesty, as if that is a special thing that sets them apart from the maddening crowds. > [@Dinsdale](#): > > Haven’t you ever played with someone who stole money from the bank in Monopoly? IMO, that might make them someone I don’t want to play monopoly with, but I don’t feel I need to hide the silverware when they come over. Since the original point of _Monopoly_ was originally to [“demonstrate the evils of capitalism”](https://aeon.co/ideas/monopoly-was-invented-to-demonstrate-the-evils-of-capitalism) I think it is entirely appropriate that players attempt to lie, cheat, and steal on their way to taking everyone else’s money (even though I think that well-regulated capitalism is fine). I also consider _Monopoly_ one of the most boring, pointless, and overly drawn out games in existence which I was forced to play repeatedly as a child, and I would reflexively exclude anyone in my peer circle who insisted on playing it when there are much better options available. Fuck, I’d rather play _Life_ or _Sorry!_ because at least they end after a certain number of moves instead of an interminable amount of time where the player who happens to gain advantage constantly trash-talks everybody else until somebody loses their shit and flips the board. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2024, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-lies-cheats-about-something-kinda-small-do-you-say-anything/1000326/22 "2024-04-15T19:27:42Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > In a game of get the ball in the hole and most people can’t get in one over their entire lifetime something is wrong. If you’re objecting to the difficulty of hole-in-ones (holes-in-one?) in golf, ISTM the problem there is the tee is too far from the hole. If instead we put them both on the green about 30 feet apart most diligent golfers will score a hole in one a lot more than once in a lifetime even using the regular sized hole. Equipment will be a lot cheaper and lighter, courses won’t consume nearly as much real estate, and a round of 18 holes would take a foursome about an hour to play. And duffers will still find a way to 6-putt. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2024, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-lies-cheats-about-something-kinda-small-do-you-say-anything/1000326/23 "2024-04-15T19:39:38Z")
On the other hand, you could respond by cheating back. Here’s a good example: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/WTBvu-fTTIk/maxresdefault.jpg "GOLDFINGER | 007 And Auric Play Golf – Sean Connery | James Bond") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTBvu-fTTIk&t=1m49s) The bar of “Nazi gold” isn’t required; you can use any old ingot of precious metal you have laying around. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2024, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-lies-cheats-about-something-kinda-small-do-you-say-anything/1000326/24 "2024-04-15T19:43:36Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > If you’re objecting to the difficulty of hole-in-ones (holes-in-one?) in golf, ISTM the problem there is the tee is too far from the hole. If instead we put them both on the green about 30 feet apart most diligent golfers will score a hole in one a lot more than once in a lifetime even using the regular sized hole. Sure that would work. But I can drive the ball (or I use to be able to) so my only strength in the game would go away. Everyone sucks at putting. As they say, drive for show, putt for dough. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2024, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-lies-cheats-about-something-kinda-small-do-you-say-anything/1000326/25 "2024-04-15T19:50:47Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > On the other hand, you could respond by cheating back. Here’s a good example: You KNOW that is brought up should any of us find a Slazenger! ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2024, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-lies-cheats-about-something-kinda-small-do-you-say-anything/1000326/26 "2024-04-15T21:41:10Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > > [@bibliophage](#): > > > > I’m not a golfer, but I have to ask what may be a stupid question: Is it possible that he is adjusting his score for his handicap and assuming everyone else is doing the same? > > That’s not how handicaps work, and in this group we play straight up - without hcps. Maybe the rules have changed since I’ve played, or different clubs do things a different way, but there used to be a max cap on scores depending on your handicap, to minimize sandbagging; say an 18-handicapper would be limited to triple bogeys, and anything above that would be dropped down to +3 for that hole. ---
**Author:** ![Jaycat.again](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat.again/32/11525_2.png) [@Jaycat.again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaycat.again)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2024, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-lies-cheats-about-something-kinda-small-do-you-say-anything/1000326/27 "2024-04-15T21:43:04Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > He’s an ex-marine. The ideas of dependability and honesty mean a lot to him. That raises a red flag for me. I am suspect of someone who makes a big deal of how honest they are. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2024, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-lies-cheats-about-something-kinda-small-do-you-say-anything/1000326/28 "2024-04-15T21:55:51Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Does it affect your overall impression of the person? The guy has “told” you who he is. Of course it should affect your overall impression of the person. My athlete brother has always said that in his lifelong experience, anyone who cheats in sports is not someone you should trust in business - or anywhere else, for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2024, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-lies-cheats-about-something-kinda-small-do-you-say-anything/1000326/29 "2024-04-15T22:17:47Z")
I play in a golf association for guys 55 and older, and the ages range from 55 to guys in their early 90’s. We play a modified Stableford system: 3 points for a birdie, 2 for a par, 1 for a bogey. Once you’ve taken your bogey stroke, you pick up. It’s a great format that keeps things moving, and no one (including the rest of his foursome) has to suffer through a 14. Well, one of the association’s rules (also to keep things moving) is you can roll your ball over to improve your lie. Here’s the relevance to your question. Most guys look at it as a convenience not to be abused. If you hit into a bad place, you can roll it over—in that bad place. There are some guys, though, that have a very liberal perspective on what “rolling your ball over” means. And they do it right in front of you. I don’t think they believe they’re doing anything wrong. Maybe that’s how your pal thought of moving his ball from the tree, since your group seems to permit improving your lie (even though you don’t). I’m not saying that’s a reasonable thought. But I’ve seen guys use our rule to drag a ball two feet out of some thick foliage. What he was thinking on the water hole, I have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2024, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-lies-cheats-about-something-kinda-small-do-you-say-anything/1000326/30 "2024-04-15T22:30:52Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Everyone sucks at putting. As they say, drive for show, putt for dough. I’m a noob at the game, only having started last Fall after I retired. The pro I was taking lessons from offered me a challenge question when we began to learn putting: > For PGA touring pros, what percentage of 7 foot putts are made? As a golf guy I had exactly zero clue. I’ve certainly seen golf on TVs in bars, airports, etc., but I’ve never really watched it, nor followed it as a professional sport. But as a math geek I recognized the significance of his seemingly oddball choice of 7 feet. So I said “50%”. He was very surprised. UntiI explained how I decided, which went way over his very nice, but definitely jock, head. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2024, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-lies-cheats-about-something-kinda-small-do-you-say-anything/1000326/31 "2024-04-15T22:57:43Z")
> [@Jaycat.again](#): > > I am suspect of someone who makes a big deal of how honest they are. He doesn’t “make a big deal out of how honest he is.” I’ve golfed with him maybe 10 times a year for the past 3-4 years. Each of those is 2 hours during which we’ve discussed our jobs, families, upbringing, homes, and countless social and political issues. I like and respect him, and I think it is mutual. He was brought into our group by his friend and neighbor, whom I’ve known about twice as long - and feel similarly about. I can get the impression of what means a lot to a person without them making a big deal out of it. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > …what percentage of 7 foot putts are made? I’ve periodically posed the question to golfers, “Would you agree to NEVER make a putt longer than 10’, if you NEVER missed a putt within 5 feet.” You can tweak the distances one way or the other. Says something about their mindset/approach to putting. Me, I’ve never sunk too many long putts. My goal is to not miss many short ones, and to avoid 3 putts. The best year putting I ever had was one summer that I practiced putting A LOT, but never practiced a putt longer than 5’. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2024, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-lies-cheats-about-something-kinda-small-do-you-say-anything/1000326/32 "2024-04-15T23:06:26Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I also consider _Monopoly_ one of the most boring, pointless, and overly drawn out games in existence which I was forced to play repeatedly as a child, and I would reflexively exclude anyone in my peer circle who insisted on playing it when there are much better options available It would be a marginally more interesting game if only people would play by the actual rules: > **[There's an obscure Monopoly rule that changes the whole game — and you...](https://www.businessinsider.com/monopoly-auction-rule-changes-game-2017-11)** > > You may have been playing Monopoly incorrectly your entire life. A Twitter user recently shared an overlooked rule about the game, and his tweet has gone viral. > “When someone lands on a property in Monopoly & they don’t buy it, IT GOES TO AUCTION for any player to buy. IT. IS. IN. THE. RULES.” ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2024, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-lies-cheats-about-something-kinda-small-do-you-say-anything/1000326/33 "2024-04-15T23:28:14Z")
> [@Jaycat.again](#): > > That raises a red flag for me. I am suspect of someone who makes a big deal of how honest they are. The Marines have a second motto (beyond the official “_Semper fidelus_”): “You can trust us with your life, but not your wife.” I mean, it’s the unofficial motto to be sure, but every Marine I’ve met nods knowingly when I mention it. But at least Marines don’t brag about being “Force Recon” even if they actually were, whereas about a quarter of the former Navy guys try to slyly intimate how they were in “the teams, but I can’t talk about it.” I’m sure you were, bruh, just like Steven Seagal. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2024, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-lies-cheats-about-something-kinda-small-do-you-say-anything/1000326/34 "2024-04-16T01:05:12Z")
I personally would not make a deal out of it, if you otherwise enjoyed his company and conversation, over such a piddling amount or a trivial fib. Especially if the person is otherwise generous when it comes to buying rounds or has other compensatory qualities. I would note it if it happened twice or more, would downgrade my level of trust in this person and would not really trust them on significant matters without more reason and would not lend them money. But I would remain pleasant and not say something snarky. Unless he is Donald Trump, of course, who is unconvincingly said to cheat at golf, but even if so is otherwise an exemplary citizen in every respect. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2024, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-lies-cheats-about-something-kinda-small-do-you-say-anything/1000326/35 "2024-04-16T03:24:35Z")
Personally I couldn’t care less. I figure you are mostly playing against yourself in golf. But if it worries you, certainly bring it up before he dons the green jacket. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2024, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-lies-cheats-about-something-kinda-small-do-you-say-anything/1000326/36 "2024-04-16T04:09:54Z")
I have no advice on whether you should or shouldn’t bring it up. But if you do ever bring it up, I’d suggest bringing it up under the assumption you’re correcting him on some rules he doesn’t know. Don’t be accusatory, or treat it like cheating. That way, if it is a misunderstanding, you’re fine, and if he is cheating, you allow him to save face. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2024, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-lies-cheats-about-something-kinda-small-do-you-say-anything/1000326/37 "2024-04-16T05:26:56Z")
I, too, wonder if he has a different idea of the friendly rules you are playing by than you have. I don’t play golf, but some of these distinctions sound judgemental, and when that’s the case, different groups sometime make different judgements. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2024, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-lies-cheats-about-something-kinda-small-do-you-say-anything/1000326/38 "2024-04-16T08:43:36Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > But if you do ever bring it up, I’d suggest bringing it up under the assumption you’re correcting him on some rules he doesn’t know. Do you think people like being corrected and called ignorant? I’ll clue you in, they don’t. It’s not significantly different than calling them a cheater. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2024, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-lies-cheats-about-something-kinda-small-do-you-say-anything/1000326/39 "2024-04-16T10:42:04Z")
I think that anyone with a little social tact can correct people without it coming off badly, especially if they’re a friend. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2024, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-lies-cheats-about-something-kinda-small-do-you-say-anything/1000326/40 "2024-04-16T11:38:23Z")
That being said, i would be uncomfortable playing in a group where different people were following different rules. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-lies-cheats-about-something-kinda-small-do-you-say-anything/1000326.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-friend-lies-cheats-about-something-kinda-small-do-you-say-anything/1000326.md?page=3)